Poll: LS3 or LS7 vs. GM Crate Ram Jet 502

[Stang's Bane]

Originally Posted by deuce_454

i dont agree... if you want an ls7 for the bragging rights, by all means buy it.. but when you can get a built 427 ls3, that makes more power, costs less money and comes with the cam of your choice its just a waste of money.. the second you open the ls7 to change cam, the warranty is gone....

a 615hp 427 ls3 that comes with absolutely everything including a full tune, VVT computer and a valid warranty costs 13k. a 505hp ls7 is much more money just for the engine.. and when you add cam, harness, computer, dynotime dry sump tanks and hoses and gaskets etc. you are well into the 17 grand range, if not more... thats 4000 dollars wasted on the ls-7 name (and a voided GM warranty)... stupid in my book...

I assume you are talking about the Mast Motorsports ls3 here. I haven't seen the graphs's supporting their 615 hp claims while retaining the VVT, I am not saying they are not true, but I haven't seen any evidence supporting the claims.

FWIW, the ultimate N/A power potential of a ls7 427 is much higher than a ls3 based 427.

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by Stang's Bane

I assume you are talking about the Mast Motorsports ls3 here. I haven't seen the graphs's supporting their 615 hp claims while retaining the VVT, I am not saying they are not true, but I haven't seen any evidence supporting the claims.

FWIW, the ultimate N/A power potential of a ls7 427 is much higher than a ls3 based 427.

=============================================
Scoggin Dickey Seem to think things are on the up and up.

http://www.sdparts.com/product/MMS11...rnKeyWECM.aspx

As far as I know they are a pretty reliable outfit.

The link above goes to the 550 hp Turn Key for $10,109.00. Put a Water cooled Magna Charger on it and at a 40% increase in power your at 770 hp!

Many of them can get higher than that.

If you can beat that with a new LS-7 for the Money, as the saying goes, "I'll take what She's Having!" (Gender meant only in reference to the quote!)

Ty

[Stang's Bane]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

=============================================
Scoggin Dickey Seem to think things are on the up and up.

http://www.sdparts.com/product/MMS11...rnKeyWECM.aspx

As far as I know they are a pretty reliable outfit.

The link above goes to the 550 hp Turn Key for $10,109.00. Put a Water cooled Magna Charger on it and at a 40% increase in power your at 770 hp!

Many of them can get higher than that.

If you can beat that with a new LS-7 for the Money, as the saying goes, "I'll take what She's Having!" (Gender meant only in reference to the quote!)

Ty

So you are going to boost a 10.7:1 motor that hard?? Better have a good supply of race gas on hand. And it will cost you about $16-$17k in the end.

FWIW, lets look at this.

high compression ls7 short block (multiple sources) ~$6200
Stock LS7 heads with GOOD springs ~$3K
Stock LS7 intake $300
Custom cam ~$400
Other parts (covers, lifters, misc bolts, etc) $1500

$11500 and you have an easy 620-640 NA hp.


Different strokes for different folks.

[Stuart Adams]

Good debate, and just shows how great the LS motors are. You can't go wrong with either choice, IMO.

I drove my friends Z06 this weekend and it's amazing the pull this stock motor has all the way to 6500 rpm. It's 500hp that feels like more. My vote still for the LS7, until the LS9 , but it's great we have more than one great choice.

[Stang's Bane]

Originally Posted by Stuart Adams

Good debate, and just shows how great the LS motors are. You can't go wrong with either choice, IMO.

I drove my friends Z06 this weekend and it's amazing the pull this stock motor has all the way to 6500 rpm. It's 500hp that feels like more. My vote still for the LS7, until the LS9 , but it's great we have more than one great choice.

That is right, the worst(or is it best??) is the choices. Given a decent budget I could build any number of different combos, all would have advantages over each other. Just depends on what you want and like.

[tyoneal]

[QUOTE=Stang's Bane;152646]So you are going to boost a 10.7:1 motor that hard?? Better have a good supply of race gas on hand. And it will cost you about $16-$17k in the end.

FWIW, lets look at this.

high compression ls7 short block (multiple sources) ~$6200
Stock LS7 heads with GOOD springs ~$3K
Stock LS7 intake $300
Custom cam ~$400
Other parts (covers, lifters, misc bolts, etc) $1500

$11500 and you have an easy 620-640 NA hp.
========================
Stangs Bang:

You mentioned $11500 and you have 620 hp.

http://www.sdparts.com/product/MMS11...rnKeyWECM.aspx

Scoggin Dickey sells this with 620 hp!, "Turn Key" for $14,000 or $2500 more money.

Can you buy all this for $11,500?

The LS3 427’s heart and soul is the new 4.065 aluminum block. The LS3 designation has a Mast Motorsports engineered camshaft that is custom ground on a Mast Motorsports LS3 cam core. The 427 foundation is a honed and decked LS3 aluminum block with a forged Callies rotating assembly with Mahle pistons that is topped off with Mast Motorsports CNC LS3/L92 heads and a LS3 intake manifold. ARP fasteners are used throughout and Manley pushrods ride on LS3 hydraulic roller lifters. The LS3 427 is the first release of a diverse line of Mast Motorsports 427 Turnkey Crate Engines that are designed for Marine, Muscle Car, Off Road, and Sand Car markets. The LS3 427 HO has a decent lope at idle and peaks at the 620+ horsepower mark. The powerful fuel injected turnkey crate engine is tuned for the street to run on 93 octane and includes an ECM and wiring harness with knock control to adjust timing if 87 octane fuel is used.

Specs:
Type: LS3 7.0L
Displacement: 427 Cubic Inches
Compression Ratio: 10.8:1
Bore x Stroke: 4.070 x 4.100
Rev Limit: 7000 RPM
Crank: Callies
Rods: Callies
Pistons: Mahle Motorsports
Cam: Mast LS7 Core Custom Cam
Heads: Mast CNC LS3/L92 Heads
Intake: GMPP L76/L92 Intake
Valve Springs: Pac 1518 Nitrided Beehive


LS3 Aluminum Block
Plateau Honed to 4.070
True Surfaced Deck
Engine Block Deburred
Blueprinted Shortblock
GM Car Harmonic Damper
ACL Rod and Crank Bearings
Callies 4.100 Stroked Crankshaft
Callies Compstar Connecting Rods
Custom Mahle Motorsports Pistons
Mast Motorsports CNC LS3/L92 Cylinder Heads
ARP Head Bolts
ARP Main Studs
Cometic Head Gaskets
Mast LS3 Core Custom Hydraulic Roller Cam
LS3 Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Manley 1 Piece Chrome Molly Pushrods
Pac 1518 Nitrided Beehive Valve Springs
M-90 Calibrated ECM
Main Wiring Harness
Dash Harness
Air Mass Harness
Trans Harness
EGO Harness
Bosch EGO Sensor
Fuel Pump Harness
Fan Harness
LS3 Intake
GM 90mm DBW Throttle Body
Bosch Dead Headed Fuel Rail
Bosch LS3 Fuel Injectors
Mast 8 Layer Air Filter with IAT Bung
Intake Air Temperature Sensor 560-2218 | info@
Crankshaft Position Sensor
Camshaft Position Sensor
Oil Pressure Sensor
Oil Temperature Sensor
Engine Coolant Temperature
Engine Knock Sensors
Manifold Air Pressure Sensor
Ignition Coils
Spark Plugs
Plug Wires
GM Foot Pedal
GM Starter
Car Water Pump
LS3 Oil Pan
GM Oil Filter
Mobile 1 Synthetic Oil
Engine Break in Oil Additive

I only bring this up as it looks like a Heck of a deal for the money And SD would be stupid to put it out if it was a POS.

No Argument here, just looking for the sweetest deal.
======================
If an inter-cooled Magna Charger was used?

An increase of 40% is not out of the question with the $10,100 550 hp, Engine. Thus, 770 Hp for the Price of a LS7 (Roughly)

Your Quote:
"So you are going to boost a 10.7:1 motor that hard?? Better have a good supply of race gas on hand."

BTW: Maganacharger says:

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/pr02.htm

FAQ:
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/faq.htm

"Should the compression ratio be set at 8:1 like my last blower motor? The deciding factor when building a blower motor is to decide how much boost you plan on running, and what type of gas you will use. Compression tolerance (the amount of compression gas will take before detonation) of 91-octane is 13.5:1. This is just a rule of thumb (there are other factors to consider). In theory, if you run 9:1 compression then the max boost you would want to run is 8 lbs (every pound of boost is 2 CR). On Gen 3 motors we have found that the configuration of the motors is much more forgiving that on a typical 10:1 motor and you can get away with even more boost. These are static compression numbers only. Cam choice has an even bigger determination on what you can get away with........... Most Magna Charger supercharger kits are available with intercoolers. An intercooler reduces the discharge temperature of the compressed air from the supercharger. Physics, in this case Boyles Law, states that when air is compressed it gets hotter. A rule of thumb is that for every 10 degrees that you can reduce the temperature, a 1% power increase can be gained. Even more efficiency is available!

I don't think there is ONE perfect answer, however for between 10K-20K You can build a Hell of a nice Street Friendly Engine.

Ain't life Grand.

TY

[Stang's Bane]

[QUOTE=tyoneal;152759]

Originally Posted by Stang's Bane

So you are going to boost a 10.7:1 motor that hard?? Better have a good supply of race gas on hand. And it will cost you about $16-$17k in the end.

FWIW, lets look at this.

high compression ls7 short block (multiple sources) ~$6200
Stock LS7 heads with GOOD springs ~$3K
Stock LS7 intake $300
Custom cam ~$400
Other parts (covers, lifters, misc bolts, etc) $1500

$11500 and you have an easy 620-640 NA hp.
========================
Stangs Bang:

You mentioned $11500 and you have 620 hp.

http://www.sdparts.com/product/MMS11...rnKeyWECM.aspx

Scoggin Dickey sells this with 620 hp!, "Turn Key" for $14,000 or $2500 more money.

Can you buy all this for $11,500?

The LS3 427’s heart and soul is the new 4.065 aluminum block. The LS3 designation has a Mast Motorsports engineered camshaft that is custom ground on a Mast Motorsports LS3 cam core. The 427 foundation is a honed and decked LS3 aluminum block with a forged Callies rotating assembly with Mahle pistons that is topped off with Mast Motorsports CNC LS3/L92 heads and a LS3 intake manifold. ARP fasteners are used throughout and Manley pushrods ride on LS3 hydraulic roller lifters. The LS3 427 is the first release of a diverse line of Mast Motorsports 427 Turnkey Crate Engines that are designed for Marine, Muscle Car, Off Road, and Sand Car markets. The LS3 427 HO has a decent lope at idle and peaks at the 620+ horsepower mark. The powerful fuel injected turnkey crate engine is tuned for the street to run on 93 octane and includes an ECM and wiring harness with knock control to adjust timing if 87 octane fuel is used.

Specs:
Type: LS3 7.0L
Displacement: 427 Cubic Inches
Compression Ratio: 10.8:1
Bore x Stroke: 4.070 x 4.100
Rev Limit: 7000 RPM
Crank: Callies
Rods: Callies
Pistons: Mahle Motorsports
Cam: Mast LS7 Core Custom Cam
Heads: Mast CNC LS3/L92 Heads
Intake: GMPP L76/L92 Intake
Valve Springs: Pac 1518 Nitrided Beehive


LS3 Aluminum Block
Plateau Honed to 4.070
True Surfaced Deck
Engine Block Deburred
Blueprinted Shortblock
GM Car Harmonic Damper
ACL Rod and Crank Bearings
Callies 4.100 Stroked Crankshaft
Callies Compstar Connecting Rods
Custom Mahle Motorsports Pistons
Mast Motorsports CNC LS3/L92 Cylinder Heads
ARP Head Bolts
ARP Main Studs
Cometic Head Gaskets
Mast LS3 Core Custom Hydraulic Roller Cam
LS3 Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Manley 1 Piece Chrome Molly Pushrods
Pac 1518 Nitrided Beehive Valve Springs
M-90 Calibrated ECM
Main Wiring Harness
Dash Harness
Air Mass Harness
Trans Harness
EGO Harness
Bosch EGO Sensor
Fuel Pump Harness
Fan Harness
LS3 Intake
GM 90mm DBW Throttle Body
Bosch Dead Headed Fuel Rail
Bosch LS3 Fuel Injectors
Mast 8 Layer Air Filter with IAT Bung
Intake Air Temperature Sensor 560-2218 | info@
Crankshaft Position Sensor
Camshaft Position Sensor
Oil Pressure Sensor
Oil Temperature Sensor
Engine Coolant Temperature
Engine Knock Sensors
Manifold Air Pressure Sensor
Ignition Coils
Spark Plugs
Plug Wires
GM Foot Pedal
GM Starter
Car Water Pump
LS3 Oil Pan
GM Oil Filter
Mobile 1 Synthetic Oil
Engine Break in Oil Additive

I only bring this up as it looks like a Heck of a deal for the money And SD would be stupid to put it out if it was a POS.

No Argument here, just looking for the sweetest deal.
======================
If an inter-cooled Magna Charger was used?

An increase of 40% is not out of the question with the $10,100 550 hp, Engine. Thus, 770 Hp for the Price of a LS7 (Roughly)

Your Quote:
"So you are going to boost a 10.7:1 motor that hard?? Better have a good supply of race gas on hand."

BTW: Maganacharger says:

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/pr02.htm

FAQ:
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/faq.htm

"Should the compression ratio be set at 8:1 like my last blower motor? The deciding factor when building a blower motor is to decide how much boost you plan on running, and what type of gas you will use. Compression tolerance (the amount of compression gas will take before detonation) of 91-octane is 13.5:1. This is just a rule of thumb (there are other factors to consider). In theory, if you run 9:1 compression then the max boost you would want to run is 8 lbs (every pound of boost is 2 CR). On Gen 3 motors we have found that the configuration of the motors is much more forgiving that on a typical 10:1 motor and you can get away with even more boost. These are static compression numbers only. Cam choice has an even bigger determination on what you can get away with........... Most Magna Charger supercharger kits are available with intercoolers. An intercooler reduces the discharge temperature of the compressed air from the supercharger. Physics, in this case Boyles Law, states that when air is compressed it gets hotter. A rule of thumb is that for every 10 degrees that you can reduce the temperature, a 1% power increase can be gained. Even more efficiency is available!

I don't think there is ONE perfect answer, however for between 10K-20K You can build a Hell of a nice Street Friendly Engine.

Ain't life Grand.

TY

Can't argue with anything you said, choices are what makes it great. However SD does sell TSP stuff and I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole. Just me personally though

[tyoneal]

[QUOTE=Stang's Bane;152761]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

Can't argue with anything you said, choices are what makes it great. However SD does sell TSP stuff and I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole. Just me personally though

Why do their products suck??

I've always heard good things about them.

Please let meknw.

Thanks,

Ty

[Stang's Bane]

[QUOTE=tyoneal;153346]

Originally Posted by Stang's Bane

Why do their products suck??

I've always heard good things about them.

Please let meknw.

Thanks,

Ty

Well, IMO they sacrifice quality for quantity if you know what I mean. If you take some of theor stuff (heads) and add up the cost for the components, there is little to no room for labor cost. Personally I just don't trust them. Like I said, this is my personal opinion. I know there are probably 20 people on here that have their stuff and love it. I can find you 10 that are not so happy though. And it is not from performance, it is from QC.

[deuce_454]

Ok this thread is spiralling out of controll... first of all: has the thread strater bought an engine yet???? , in wich case all of this is a mute point! and why are we into forced induction?? the thread topic was "LS3, LS7 or GM-502... not whipplecharger or twin turbos...... im all for this kind of discussion and its nice to hear what prople think is the best solution, but it has to be the best solution for some particular person.. otherwise the "best" will be some nelson racing engines gazillion dollar trannymuncher-thing or 800 cube sonnys-hemiheaded mountainmotor for that matter... or a stack injected reher.morrison 500 cube prostock engine built for pump gas... get my point?

and while we are on the topic of whipplechragers and twinscrew´s i have to say the best twinscrew is this one: www.miltontwins.com NSFW!!