Where is Steve Chryssos?

[Steve Chryssos]

These are 4l60E transmissions that are significantly upgraded. The "RR" tag is a term we apply to distinguish the system from ordinary 4L60's. It stands for Road Race. That may seem arrogant, but we want to show that automatics can exist in a road race environment. We ran the entire Road Atlanta course with the 4L65RR using only second and third gear.

[ironworks]

Can this technology be adapted to any 4L80 trans or does the trans require specific hard parts to run like this?

Rodger

[Steve Chryssos]

Perhaps a descriptive real world scenario of the system's function will help clarify:

I picked up Tyler at J.F. Kennedy International Airport. It's about 80 miles from my town. Anyone who knows NY City can attest to the fact that I had the only 68 Camaro at the airport on a Thursday night or any night for that matter. The area is plagued with gridlock and other forms of vehicular stupidity. There are lots of foreigners who are used to driving in countries without roads or rules.

On our way out of the airport, the transmission was kept in full automatic mode. This allowed me to turn my brain off as we endured congestion. The floor shifter was placed in "D" (3rd gear). This engages the overrun and coast clutches. The lock up clutch will automatically engage at 44mph and not disengage until speeds drop below 34mph. I only use OD for highway speeds. So just picture that with the floor shifter in "D" (3rd gear), the tach stays at speed when you lift off the throttle--maintaining the load from the driven wheels and dropping only as vehicle speed decreases. Below 34mph, there is no chugging. Coupling is entirely fluid--as smooth as a Cadillac.

As we travelled away from the city, traffic steadily lightened up. When speeds exceeded 60mph, I slipped the floor shifter into OD to maximize fuel economy. Note, that I have not yet touched the paddle shifter (other than showing off to Tyler).

We're on the Southern State Parkway now. A beautiful, winding roadway with some fairly aggressive turns and some hills. Being from Vegas, Tyler was impressed by the presence of trees. The lock up clutch engages at 44mph, providing some engine braking. The chugging sensation is just like a mechanical clutch--Direct drive coupling between the engine and trans. With light traffic comes the urge to pass the 40mph turds clogging up the roadway. Check your mirror and tap the left paddle to downshift. This automatically switches the system from automatic mode to paddle shift mode. The on-board display shows gear selection. It changes from "4" to "S3". The "S: signifies paddle shift mode. Squeeze the throttle, pass the turd and tap the right paddle to upshift. The display now shows "S4" (instead of "4"). Repeat the process: Tap down, squeeze the throttle, pass, tap up, repeat. Bye, bye turd. You find yourself carving up traffic like a guided missile. Shifts are quick and tight--way quicker than the time required to push in a clutch pedal, row a gear, and let out a clutch pedal.

Finally, as I approach our exit ramp, I reach down to move the floor shifter into "D" (3rd gear). With the overrun/coast clutches engaged, I now have engine braking to help steady the chassis through the tight exit ramp. On local roads, I keep the floor shifter in "D" (3rd gear). I can put it in "OD", I simply choose not to. This prompted Tyler to make a joke about gas mileage. My response? It's a hot rod.

As we pulled into my neighborhood, I put the system back into auto mode. Brain off.

I hope that helps. The 6L's can do the same thing--only better. We just can't adapt them to our cars yet for various reasons.

[Steve Chryssos]

Originally Posted by ironworks

Can this technology be adapted to any 4L80 trans or does the trans require specific hard parts to run like this?

Rodger

We can adapt everything but the full-on engine braking. There, engine braking is limited to the lock up/overrun clutches. Some engine braking is present, just not as much as the 60's. Hoover and Vinnie's cars are fully operational as just described. Hoover will get an experimental 4L80RR in the fall. Mark is mildly concerned about sprag failure on the 80's. Getting the 80's to shift as quickly as the 60's is another concern (mine). Words cannot describe just how tight Bowler's 60's shift. It's awesome. Likewise the Compushift controller has super quick processesing (like comparing an Intel 286 to an Intel Core Duo) But, for now, Jimmy just wants to drive his car for a while, so we won't make the swap until fall.

[camcojb]

Steve,

what power range has Bowler reached on the 4L65's? I had one built for the twin turbo GTO and the builder was comfortable with 1000 hp. It has billet shafts and all the bells and whistles. I was running 15 psi at that point, so not sure it was making 1000 hp, but a friends combo made over 800 rwhp with the same kit, same boost, and a nearly stock LS2.

The trans was flawless, never put up a whimper, and I did run drag radials 100% of the time. Then again, it never dead hooked either. I just wonder if they have a 4L60/65 that could hang in my car. Currently have a 4L80E but have been considering the RR trans and converter, and with your comments on the 4L80's not at the same level has me thinking of moving to the 4L60 series.

Jody

[Steve Chryssos]

I don't care to guess. Bowler and I are on the same page: When taking people's money, conservative estimates are the rule. Torque capacity is entirely application specific. A weekend warrior on slicks will see more abuse than a traction limited P-T car on short sidewall street tires. Longevity must also be considered. Will a thoroughly built 4L60E handle more torque? Sure, but racers view parts failure as part of the game. And warranties are unheard of in the racing world. And don't forget that WOT presents a different set of challenges than the on/off throttle and upshift/downshift world of pro-touring. WOT function is easy by comparison.

I wonder if the 60's case can handle that many beans? It just seems more logical to proceed with development on the 80. Bowler assures me he can make it shift way quicker than the current Hughes configuration, and he's optimistic about the sprag issue. I like his cautious, conservative approach.

I'd like to see you try, though.

[Steve Chryssos]

Specs for the Bowler 550 Ft-Lb trans are as follows:
HARD PARTS
-Performance Wide 2-4 Band/New OEM Drum: Used in conjunction, these parts yield maximum surface contact.
-Hardened and Reinforced Input Shaft: Steel sleeve pressed over input shaft for reinforcement.
-Cryogenic Treated Drum
-Machine Coast Clutch Piston for Clearance and Add O-Ring Seal
-Heavy Duty 5 Pinion Front & Rear Planet: with new Sun Gear and new Ring Gear. No junkyard parts.
-SPX "The Beast" Hardened Sun Shell: blueprinted in conjunction with new reverse input drum for matched set. Very important.
-Sonnax Billet 2nd Gear Servo with D-cut O-ring for leak free seal
-Super Hold billet 4th Gear Servo with 30% more apply force. D-cut O-ring for leak free seal.
-Raybestos ZPak 14 element 3-4 Clutch Upgrade for ultimate heat dissipation.
-Borg Warner Low/Rev Sprag 29 element for maximum load capacity
-Torrington Bearing Kit
-Master Kit (gaskets, seals bushings, filter etc.)
-New Inspection Cover
BLUEPRINTED AND CALIBRATED PUMP
-Hand Blueprinted Pump
-Unbreakable High Rev Hardened Pump Rings
-New HP Boost Valve
-New Pump Vanes
BLUEPRINTED AND CALIBRATED VALVEBODY
-Hand Blueprinted Valve Body
-Shift Kit: Custom calibrated to your application.
-New Shift Solenoid
-New EPC Solenoid
-New PWM Solenoid
-New Manifold Pressure Switch
-New Internal Wiring Harness w/New TCC Solenoid
-New Extra Capacity Pan
-New! New! New! Bowler supplies an un-equalled number of new parts such as wiring harnesses, connectors, sensors, etc.

[ironworks]

I'm kinda letting the cat out of the bag here, but we are building a 63 nova with all the left over parts we have laying around, I know these are awesome parts, but seriously they are just waiting for another project and collecting dust. We decided to build the 475 Lsx engine with either the F3 procharger or the Kinsler magnesium cross ram that I have both of. We will use all the extra corvette suspension that we have to build a full width 63 that has some fender flares on it like a datsun 510 or libbys mustang. I wanted to run an auto due to the large amount of horse power and a clutch just seems like it would be easier through an auto. I have known about your product but was unaware that it would run 1000 hp. I have a 4L80 already built for corvette drivetrain but I want the compression braking. We are looking for 2400 lbs and 800hp minimum if we go naturally aspirated, the F3 will be insane.


HHHHHMMMMMMMM??????

[Steve Chryssos]

Rodger,
....Project FloorSweep. I like it.
Remember that I'm in the shifter business--just as Pro 5.0 is in the shifter business. So my system can handle anything. The same holds true for the Compushift computer that my product plugs into. A TCU can handle anything. Think of my product as the mouse or keyboard that plugs into the CPU on your desk. I'm like Logitech and Compushift equates to Dell. I guess that makes Bowler and Pro Torque the equivalent of a high speed plotter or CNC machine. Input, processor, output.
The only limitations are in the transmission--same as with a manual trans. Only with a manual, the clutch usually frags before the trans. With a 4L80E, torque capacity is not an issue. In the case of the 4L65RR, Bowler has taken it a step further. He simply asked "Just how fast and how good can we get these things to shift". The magic is in the blueprinting phase of the transmission building process. The 4L60 series has been addressed and the answers are truly remarkable. Super quick shifting road race 4L80's are just a matter of time. If someone wants to be the guinea pig before me, I'll be glad to help in any way possible.

[dave96dcm]

Steve not to take anything off topic, but did you happen to see my PM on Musclerides?