Save GM

[Stuart Adams]

Originally Posted by camcojb

I think what a lot of people are afraid of is the loan will be burnt through in a few months and they will be right back where they were, except with billions of our money gone.

If I try to get a business loan I have to prove my credit worthiness and ability to pay it back. So I think GM needs to show what changes they're going to make that satisfies the lender that they have a good chance of being re-paid. I don't think they've said a single thing they're going to do differently, and if true I see that as the problem.

I hope this all works out. I have many friends that work there, most on this board. Plus I'm a big GM guy anyway, plus I realize that this reaches much further than just direct GM employees losing their jobs. But I think GM should be working on a plan to right the ship financially. If they come up with a viable plan I think the loan is there. Actually I think the loan will happen even if they don't change anything just due to the financial impact it'd have, but if the goal is to survive and compete with the other companies they need a new business model. You cannot keep doing the exact same thing and expect the results to change.

Jody

What he said. They should build and sell the cars that do well and make those even better. Get rid of the dead cars and dead weight. Kinda like In- N- Out. Just burgers and fries.

[conekiller13]

I guess if England can survive the loss of it's auto industry so can We right? I guess this will be a great opportunity for Tata from India and Changan Automobile Group and Cherry from China to get their vehicles here. I can see them swooping in to buy up the plants and designs and then suddenly they have U.S. compliant vehicles.

I don't understand why we are unable to have a deal like the French did with Renault. If someone is going to buy out the U.S. companies why not have it be the U.S.? Nationalize the companies and restructure management, make the company work for the company and not the shareholder. Once it turns around start selling it back to itself. Use Renault as a model.

Taken from the NY Times:
"For Garel Rhys, head of the Center for Automotive Industry Research at Cardiff University in Wales, the trajectory of General Motors is reminiscent of British Leyland not only because of the former’s decision to seek aid to avert bankruptcy, but also for its slow, seemingly inexorable loss of market share. “Both had a history of being the biggest in their market but couldn’t adapt as they lost sales,” he said. “They couldn’t get customers back.”

If Washington does go ahead and help Detroit, Mr. Edwardes said, it is crucial that the government overhaul the management of the Big Three. “Throwing money at them isn’t enough,” he said. “They need money and they need new management. They need both, not one or the other.”

It is a sad day for America and the American worker...........would You like fries with that?


I can not think of another American industry that has so many rules involved in designing and building it's product. How much of a new cars design and component cost is eaten up by D.O.T. and EPA requirements before the car design actually hits paper. Add the burden of out of date UAW contracts and then making the shareholders the primary concern instead of the customer or the company and it is definitely a recipe for disaster.

Anyone remember that movie with Micheal Keaton "Gung-Ho"? Remember how the Union workers didn't want to work to the Japanese standard? Is that whats to blame for the still perceived build quality problems or is it cutting costs on materials to show a better bottom line to shareholders? I think "free" enterprise running amuck in this country shares a large part of the responsibility for our current situation.

[Damn True]

How many US airlines have gone through bankruptcy and yet are still in existence?

The reason I bring this up is this. It is my opinion that the UAW is calling the shots here. They are the reason why the big-2.5 Execs are so opposed to bankruptcy and restructuring because if that happens the contracts will also be restructured which spells disaster for the UAW.

[conekiller13]

Originally Posted by Damn True

How many US airlines have gone through bankruptcy and yet are still in existence?

The reason I bring this up is this. It is my opinion that the UAW is calling the shots here. They are the reason why the big-2.5 Execs are so opposed to bankruptcy and restructuring because if that happens the contracts will also be restructured which spells disaster for the UAW.

But disaster for the UAW will ultimately help the industry build itself back up. The union is the biggest obstacle in competing with the import companies. I would think the "Execs" would be for that scenario. I haven't heard any representative from the UAW chime in on the subject yet...........

[tones2SS]

Originally Posted by Nine Ball

I bought a 2009 Corvette Z06 only 3 weeks ago, and ordered a 2010 Camaro SS last week. Just doing my part

WOW!!!
Good deal Tony.
Post up some pics when you them.

[tones2SS]

Originally Posted by rwhite692

My opinion, If the automakers do go down, there will be no debate as to whether or not we will go into a full-on economic depression as opposed to a "bad recession" or just having a "lousy economy".



Not only that, but the knowledge loss to the country will be tremendous if that industry is gone, and that is a very hard thing to put a price tag on.

People in this country are, by and large, completely ignorant of the massive consequences that are at stake here. They are completely numb from hearing about all the wall street issues these last few months, and feel this is just “more of the same” stuff.



On top of that, the media has spent decades conditioning people to believe that the American auto industry just doesn't produce anything that is any good at all, when we all know that some of what they produce is best-in-class, and best in the world in many cases.


Rich you are right, the employee situation is a complete mess. My hope is that any money they get, will come with some real enforceable stipulations on how they must use it (hopefully to reduce their pension and healthcare obligations for retirees and get that monkey off their backs…complete restructuring, union re-negotiations, etc, etc). Part of the problem, for GM in particular, is bad mortgage debt via GMAC financing (Ditech) So they should be directed to get out of that business...

I never would have had a manufacturing plant to go to work in back in NY as a college kid and get my career started, if it wasn’t for these three guys who were our main customers. I also spent many years in the defense industry and saw the auto makers technology contributions there firsthand. It is not an exaggeration to say that it is a real national security issue if they were to disappear.


Anyway...enough ranting...Even though they have HUGE management problems, I still called my congressman in support of help in the form of LOANS for the US auto industry.

GOOD CALL!!!
Very well said.

[Tony_SS]

Originally Posted by XcYZ

I still don't understand how Wall Street can get so much help, but when the Big 3 want a loan for a fraction of the amount, it's the most evil thing in the world. Look what AIG did after they got their billions handed to them - the executives went to some million dollar spa retreat deal...

That's because helping the Big 3 doesn't directly benefit Henry Paulson, Goldman Sachs, the Bush admin or the private Federal Reserve. So they won't have any part of it. But it's ok for them to bailout these inflated banks that made their bad decisions even though the only thing they produce is imaginary credit. It's total hypocrisy, save Wall St. and the corrupt money masters and screw the working middle class.

Something else to consider... If the Big 3 does go bankrupt, who would want to buy their cars not knowing the future of parts, service and warranty? Eventually they'll go under and be bought out by some foreign multi-national corporation.

Also a huge part of a healthy economy is confidence... Denying the auto industry any assistance would be a huge blow to that.

[conekiller13]

Originally Posted by Tony_SS

That's because helping the Big 3 doesn't directly benefit Henry Paulson, Goldman Sachs, the Bush admin or the private Federal Reserve. So they won't have any part of it. But it's ok for them to bailout these inflated banks that made their bad decisions even though the only thing they produce is imaginary credit. It's total hypocrisy, save Wall St. and the corrupt money masters and screw the working middle class.

Something else to consider... If the Big 3 does go bankrupt, who would want to buy their cars not knowing the future of parts, service and warranty? Eventually they'll go under and be bought out by some foreign multi-national corporation.

Also a huge part of a healthy economy is confidence... Denying the auto industry any assistance would be a huge blow to that.

Is this the Bush administrations last ditch effort to stomp out the blue collar worker?

[trapin]

Originally Posted by rich-allen

Tony,

I understand your frustration totally. It's not your fault a handful of people ran this American icon into the ground.

My opinion is from first hand experience. I've signed on to 3 of these union contracts myself and I've written checks to those benefit programs totaling over $1M this year alone.
Please don't misconstrued my statements for being anything other than an outside opinion. It's hard to understand when you stand on the other side of the wall.
It bothers me that you have to go through this Tony. The guys at Lateral-G have been great to me and I consider everyone here like a big family, it hurts to see you in this situation.


Respectfully,

Rich Allen

Rich, I understand. We're cool. You should probably know that I am no fan of the UAW even though I belong to it. I had no choice, I had to join if I wanted in to the department I'm working in now. They take $80 out of my check each month for virtually nothing.

does anyone know what the "loan" will do? im not sure how giving gm money will sell cars? if its to keep them operating it wont take long for all 3 to burn through the 25billion, it might be a loan, but once its chapter 11 its nothing and most people hope the money didnt go to the ceos .