First Gen Camaro Subframe Feedback...

[68protouring454]

Originally Posted by BRIAN

There is no clear choice to any of the options. The stock subframe has been proven to be a viable option with the correct mods. It can also offer adjustability with the the ATS and SC&C stuff.


The full clips add a one stop shopping complete bolt on with some compromises. You have to remember almost no 2 builds are the same so there has to be a compromise made unless it is built specific for your exact set up. That is where the adjustable set ups come into play. Problem is how many guys have the equipment or knowledge to make adjustments. Ever try to get an alignment shop to make adjustments to a modified car?

Everybody has a different idea of what handles well and what good ride and tire wear are. The person describing the handling and ride might drive a F150 or an BMW M3 so they have a different opinion as to what is good. Look for good customer service and a proven design. I do not want to be the test for someone to develop their parts. DSE has the edge in my opinion on design and testing. Plus their parts have a lot of miles on them.

Jake I have never seen your set up but if you are offering a tailored to fit bolt on you might have a market. I have never seen anybody offer a fully set up roller as an option to their suspension which if you did I think would help with that small shop personal attention sale. Just an idea. The cost of buying several spring sets and set up tools would be about the same cost.

I wish someone would design a coil over that lasts 15k miles without leaking and springs that do not sag. That is why I would favor a modified stock design. Killer delrin style bushings and 5" springs with adjusters with conventional shocks. I hate crawling under a car when they are done to keep fiddling with it. I would rather be driving.

thats why we use chose bilstein shocks and hyperco springs exclusively.no problems with leaking, or breakage.

[68protouring454]

Originally Posted by David Pozzi

The down side to higher amounts of neg camber gain is when you apply power, the front rises, and the camber goes positive faster. Jake's car does look very well tuned in the video's though.
David

Yes, however we are not that aggressive, race cars commonly see 1.0 plus neg camber gain, my chassis is at .85 per inch, very similar to parsons II much nova.

[tones2SS]

Very good write up.
Very informative for those of us that do not have any of these products being talked about.
If I can afford it, I would LOVE to go with the DSE stuff. A friend of mine went to SEMA this year and said that their stuff is nothing but TOP-NOTCH!!
But, for my personal use of the car, which isn't going to be used on the track, just a "once-in-a-while" weekend warrior, I may go with the Speed Tech instead to allow more money for other aspects of the build, et: big block power?

[XLexusTech]

Originally Posted by tones2SS

Very good write up.
Very informative for those of us that do not have any of these products being talked about.
I may go with the Speed Tech instead to allow more money for other aspects of the build, et: big block power?

If the blue is your goal then just go with a modded OEM. The STtech sub will actually have you spending good money that you shoud put toward the power you are looking for.

JMHO

[awr68]

Originally Posted by XLexusTech

If the blue is your goal then just go with a modded OEM. The STtech sub will actually have you spending good money that you shoud put toward the power you are looking for.

JMHO

I had a highly modded sub with DSE arms, DSE c/o conversion, Unisteer rack, Hotchkis sway bar, fully welded frame, blasted, and painted...and it still didn't give me what I TOTALLY wanted. I wanted to run a 10" wheel and I love the look of fabricated frames. So I sold my old frame/suspension and went with the complete ST clip.

You have to understand that not everyone can weld, blast ,or paint...so to say you are simply waisting money going with the ST frame isn't exactly true! How much would it cost to take your stock frame (assuming you have one) to a shop and have them convert it to a true coilover, weld the seams and any other issues they find, blast it, and paint it? And you still aren't at the same point as if you just would have ordered a ST frame.

And I think you are forgetting that all the guys that already own tubular arms and possibly a Unisteer rack that want to loose a little weight off the frame and be able to run a wider wheel/tire this is a great option for them.

I'm hoping that you don't really have a beef with ST and think you are just informing others that this isn't the 'best' setup from an all out performance standpoint...but honestly some of us completely honest with ourselves and know that we will never drive our cars 10/10's and for the money this ST frame/suspension will work just fine!

So please back off, you have spoken, people have read what you have to say and they will make their own decision from here. If they are still considering ST then let it go....we don't need to continually hear that you think they are junk/waste of money...that's simply not true!

[XLexusTech]

Originally Posted by awr68

I had a highly modded sub with DSE arms, DSE c/o conversion, Unisteer rack, Hotchkis sway bar, fully welded frame, blasted, and painted...and it still didn't give me what I TOTALLY wanted. I wanted to run a 10" wheel and I love the look of fabricated frames. So I sold my old frame/suspension and went with the complete ST clip.

You have to understand that not everyone can weld, blast ,or paint...so to say you are simply waisting money going with the ST frame isn't exactly true! How much would it cost to take your stock frame (assuming you have one) to a shop and have them convert it to a true coilover, weld the seams and any other issues they find, blast it, and paint it? And you still aren't at the same point as if you just would have ordered a ST frame.

And I think you are forgetting that all the guys that already own tubular arms and possibly a Unisteer rack that want to loose a little weight off the frame and be able to run a wider wheel/tire this is a great option for them.

I'm hoping that you don't really have a beef with ST and think you are just informing others that this isn't the 'best' setup from an all out performance standpoint...but honestly some of us completely honest with ourselves and know that we will never drive our cars 10/10's and for the money this ST frame/suspension will work just fine!

So please back off, you have spoken, people have read what you have to say and they will make their own decision from here. If they are still considering ST then let it go....we don't need to continually hear that you think they are junk/waste of money...that's simply not true!

Just my Humble Opinion as noted in my post. And for the record I have no Beef with ST. I thought this was an open discussion were folks could express opinions. Sorry if you feel my opinions are strong or if you don't agree with them. You know what they say about opinions.
I will try to refrain from future post in this thread.
Regards

[Vegas69]

This thread will get sorted out about as fast as a ford vs chevy discussion. Like the old saying goes....there is an ass for every seat. No wrong answer here, it really depends on your exact situation, game plan, and ultimately how much money you are spending on your project.

[tones2SS]

Originally Posted by XLexusTech

If the blue is your goal then just go with a modded OEM. The STtech sub will actually have you spending good money that you shoud put toward the power you are looking for.

JMHO

I appreciate the input. That's how we all learn on these forums.
Like I said, if I "have" the money I will go with the DSE set-up.
If not, the ST will do just find for a lower stance, bigger tire and coil over system, especially for the times that I will be driving the car, which really won't be too much.
And I will not be dragging at the tracks or autox. Just want a nice set up for a weekend warrior type car above the OEM or OEM mod'dset up.

[Jr]

How much does a stock subframe weigh?

[monza]

Originally Posted by DJW32

How much does a stock subframe weigh?

- stock rolling subframe (no tires), factory disc, manual sterring complete.
317 LBS