pro touring suspension on a beer budget?

[Mkelcy]

Originally Posted by jcal87

Ok any recommendations on good suspension componets to throw on a stock subframe and ya the wheels and tires have to go for sure...thats just the way it was when i bought it but they will defenitly have to go.

If I were you (and I once was in your position) I'd spend a lot of time reading David Pozzi's site, and then search for Camaro suspension threads here and on Pro-touring.com.

The stock subframe can be made to handle extremely well; leaf springs in the rear also work extremely well. Too many people (I'm not suggesting you're one of them) spend money before planning out their car. Figure out how much you want to spend; figure out how you want to use your car (there's corner carving on the street and there's corner carving on a track); figure out how much you can do and how much you will have to farm out, and how important bling is as compared to a hard eyed focus on performance improvements. There's really nothing to point to under the hood with the Guldstrand mod, it just works.

The cheapest approach is delrin/delalum UCA/LCA bushings, the Guldstrand mod, good springs, shocks, swaybar and BRAKES. I've got this on my current '68 Camaro driver, and it's a great setup.

You can do a better correction of the front suspension with the SC&C tall balljoints in their UCAs. The "magic" though is in the balljoints, not the UCAs. A tubular UCA with a stock height ball joint is only going to give you "bling," not performance improvement. Tubular LCA's also don't correct geometry, but may help re-center your front wheel in the wheel well reducing or eliminating rub when you have an aggressive caster setting in your alignment. (The ATS tall spindle is a great choice also - similar approach as the tall ball joint with a number of other advantages - but may no longer be available.)

After that, though, I think you're looking at one of the "handling" subframes from DSE, AME or 21st Century Street Machine to name a few. However, plan on spending roughly $7,000 for any of these subs. I would not look at Heidt's, Martz, Fatman or any of the more hotrod oriented subframes if you really want to use your car hard in the twisties or at the track; nor would I go to Speedtech - which gives you the choice of the stock UCA mounting point and relies on something like the SC&C tall ball joint for geometry correction, or has the Guldstrand mod built in.

Read, search and then ask any questions you may still have. And don't forget good brakes.

[markss28]

Keep it simple unless you have deep pockets. Unless you are competing on a regular basis you would be surplised as to what a good set replacement parts can do. First off there are a few companies that sell great leaf spring for handling. CCP, Hotchkis, and a few others. Buy some new springs that will lower the car and some better shocks. Make sure there not drag shocks. You could spend some money and get tubular Upper and lower control arms or just change out the bushings. As for wheels go with 18x8s and 18x10s you may have to do some triming of the fender lip. stuff like that will go along way. Dont forget brakes. Kore 3 is the way to go.

[deuce_454]

Installing tall upper ball joints will accomplish the same as a gullstrand mod, which is to increase the camber gain, the difference betwen the two is the time and effort required... the Street-Comp Stage 2 Packages include both tall upper and lower balljoints, improving camber gain and roll center BEYOND the gullstarnd mod... (and it yields a .5-.3/4 inch drop...)

if it were me id stick to the tall upper/lower balljoint + adjustable upper arm in the SC&C street comp 2 package. aftermarket subframes are 4-10 times the money... the street comp 2 is 800 bucks.. markus us also a big ATS dealer so you might be able to inquire into the ATS spindles.... it is my understanding that tyler who owns ATS is continuing on a part time basis and only closed his vegas shop... so the spindles might still be available but they are 1300 for a pair... you do however save when that on the brakes....


(and heidts is a hot rod company, you get great bling, but crappy handling.... )

i saw Frank chimed in with the speedtech subframe.. i have dealt with both SC&C and Prodogy and can recomend both warmly... but since you are asking for handling on beer budget i strongly recomend that you call markus first: 610-346-8154
http://www.scandc.com/suspensions.htm

[Heidts#14]

Originally Posted by deuce_454

Installing tall upper ball joints will accomplish the same as a gullstrand mod, which is to increase the camber gain, the difference betwen the two is the time and effort required... the Street-Comp Stage 2 Packages include both tall upper and lower balljoints, improving camber gain and roll center BEYOND the gullstarnd mod... (and it yields a .5-.3/4 inch drop...)

if it were me id stick to the tall upper/lower balljoint + adjustable upper arm in the SC&C street comp 2 package. aftermarket subframes are 4-10 times the money... the street comp 2 is 800 bucks.. markus us also a big ATS dealer so you might be able to inquire into the ATS spindles.... it is my understanding that tyler who owns ATS is continuing on a part time basis and only closed his vegas shop... so the spindles might still be available but they are 1300 for a pair... you do however save when that on the brakes....


(and heidts is a hot rod company, you get great bling, but crappy handling.... )

i saw Frank chimed in with the speedtech subframe.. i have dealt with both SC&C and Prodogy and can recomend both warmly... but since you are asking for handling on beer budget i strongly recomend that you call markus first: 610-346-8154
http://www.scandc.com/suspensions.htm

LOL.... . All I can say is I think you are under estimating us. I would love to have you guys come out, take a tour, take the camaros out for a spin, and have a good time. I gaurantee you would have a smile from ear to ear. I am just saying I think we are being under estimated.

[Vegas69]

Welcome Heidts 14. Seemed like you guys did fine in the shoot out recently. It's going to be a stigma you are going to have to deal with similar to GM. We are pretty set on function and looks around here. Sounds like you are making the right changes.

[Heidts#14]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Welcome Heidts 14. Seemed like you guys did fine in the shoot out recently. It's going to be a stigma you are going to have to deal with similar to GM. We are pretty set on function and looks around here. Sounds like you are making the right changes.

Vegas69,
Thank you for the welcome, and you are correct we are the hot rod guru's but our new owner Marc Prince is a very aggressive obssessed muscle car enthusiast. I am not here to bad mouth anyone, wait too see what comes out this year Its going to be fun!!!

[jcal87]

thanx for all the great info guys.and i do want a street carver that i can get grocerys with if i want.But my one problem thats has kicked me in the a** many times is spending alot of money on one thing, to just completly redo it it later down the road, when i could have just saved the money and got me there quicker.I am a guy who likes to do it right the first time and have it be the best even if i have to sacrifice....so i will keep researching and hopefully come to a conclusion

[markss28]

Originally Posted by Heidts#14

Vegas69,
Thank you for the welcome, and you are correct we are the hot rod guru's but our new owner Marc Prince is a very aggressive obssessed muscle car enthusiast. I am not here to bad mouth anyone, wait too see what comes out this year Its going to be fun!!!

Ive looked at ya'lls stuff before and I did like the new rear suspension for the 2nd gens. I just wish it could fit a bigger tire, but it does come with a great price compaired to the rest of the guys.

[deuce_454]

Originally Posted by Heidts#14

LOL.... . All I can say is I think you are under estimating us. I would love to have you guys come out, take a tour, take the camaros out for a spin, and have a good time. I gaurantee you would have a smile from ear to ear. I am just saying I think we are being under estimated.

I admit i could be... i drove a 32 with one of your front ends and it pushed and drove funny.. it could be installed wrong.. or alligned wrong... so ill just put my foot in my mouth

nice tall spindle btw... do tell more, it could be another beer budget option...
http://www.heidts.com/index.cfm/page...rod/prd154.htm

[Heidts#14]

Originally Posted by deuce_454

I admit i could be... i drove a 32 with one of your front ends and it pushed and drove funny.. it could be installed wrong.. or alligned wrong... so ill just put my foot in my mouth

nice tall spindle btw... do tell more, it could be another beer budget option...
http://www.heidts.com/index.cfm/page...rod/prd154.htm

More than likely it was alligned improperly but that is neither here nor there. Thank you though about the props on the spindle. It is a 2" Drop spindle with the upper ball joint raised 1-1/2 " to get some better adjustment. You can utilize your stock arms and stock disc brakes which makes it nice also.

Again we are not here to bash anyone, or start anything. People are just getting misinformed and we need to change that. So lets all get together and . Man I love those smilies