Ok Builders, I need some input... (pics)

[svp]

Originally Posted by sacarguy

Also far to many shops take in multiple cars when they simply can not work on them..

i see it every day a shop has two guys < a chasis shop for example > and they got three cars there already needing work.

a fourth guy shows up and they say sure I can do it just to get the job in there.. then so they can collect money from each person they do a little on one car then a little on the other then a little on the other etc etc.

I've seen this before but it doesn't apply to everyone...We have seperate accounts for seperate customers and money is NEVER used from one customer to work on anothers car...that is a personal pet peeve of mine.

Sometimes one can take on a project they really don't have time for because they are too nice and trying to accomodate everyone. I've been guilty of that and I've stopped trying to accomodate everyone anymore because it just comes back to haunt you. I told this customer that I had other cars ahead of him and he understood that....and his car has jumped ahead of others due to the push on time which is not fair to the other customers and I probably should not have allowed myself to be pushed that way...but again, trying to be nice and accomodating.

Anyone who has ever run a shop knows that you have to work on more than one job primarily because a customer who wants to pay you to work constantly on the car are not around every corner....most customers cannot afford to pay you 40 plus hours each week and most customers don't want to have that expense. We do some quick install work here and there as well as full restorations/builds.....the restoration/big projects are worked on around quick in and out installations and I tell everyone that going in so they understand and do not/should not expect constant non stop work on their car. If that is what they desire then that would be the time to speak up.

a simple rule can stop all this..

DON"T take in work that 1 the customer cant pay for you to work continualy on unless the customer specificly understands the project will take extreme amounts of time.

Addressed above.

and 2 dont take in another car if you got a car a customer who will pay you to finish by working non stop on it and wants to.

That customer is a rare bird these days....very few that come in with the "cost is not a concern" attitude so you work with them....and in doing so there is going to be other work in and around theirs.

I am about to finish a full frame off resto mod including paint etc on a car and i have a total of 5 weeks invested so far in the car and i only have me and two employess one of wich is just a shop errand runner.

I mean soda blasted to bare metal, every nut and bolt replaced, a new engine built, full vete brakes, powder coated suspension, and rear end, and sub frame, as well as a new transmission, and full reproduction interior, custom stereo, covans dash, etc etc there is nothing left of the old car except the floor and the rear half.. new trunk floor but other wise non rusted car.

The total turn around by time im done painting the car will have been 6 or 7 weeks and ill make as much or most likely more in that time as i would have trying to take multiple cars a little at a time and without the headache of complaining customers over time taken, or having to track multiple builds etc etc.

That's great....unfortunately I don't currently have customers that are willing to spend what it takes to do that. I'd be more than happy to schedule someone to come in for us to do just that. But the reality is that most people while they want to build a car want to save money where they can.

I understand this is not the same situation with all the custom work you have done you simply need to tell people either you are going to have to give me xx per week so i can work on your car solid or you will have to just wait and have it done as it can be done.

as hard as it may be for some of the smaller shops to do you also some times you just have to say no i cant do it right now.

I agree and I have done that....we have a waiting list right now because of that. I am currently not filling slots when a car leaves because I want to thin out the work load a bit.

As I said, I tend to be too nice at times and accomodate everyone but I have been changing that. We have a waiting list but even with that I am not filling the slots in the shop as we get them done because I want more room and less ongoing jobs. Help is another story....we have tried multiple times to bring in help but good help is impossible to find....you either get a kid that quits when he finds out there is real work involved or you get someone who tries to steal from you....it just wasn't worth the drama. So as a result we stay covered up...

There is always a learning curve and you always tweak things to help things run better....you are never done learning. My downfall is trying to make everyone happy.

[SVPJason]

Originally Posted by sacarguy

Well for one there comes a point where you realy should tell your customer .. JUST BUY SOMETHING MORE SOLID...

his time will be saved your time will be saved to many shops want to just run that labor bill up fixing whatever they have to when the customer would be better served by being told the simple truth.

Also far to many shops take in multiple cars when they simply can not work on them..

i see it every day a shop has two guys < a chasis shop for example > and they got three cars there already needing work.

a fourth guy shows up and they say sure I can do it just to get the job in there.. then so they can collect money from each person they do a little on one car then a little on the other then a little on the other etc etc.

a simple rule can stop all this..

DON"T take in work that 1 the customer cant pay for you to work continualy on unless the customer specificly understands the project will take extreme amounts of time.

and 2 dont take in another car if you got a car a customer who will pay you to finish by working non stop on it and wants to.

I am about to finish a full frame off resto mod including paint etc on a car and i have a total of 5 weeks invested so far in the car and i only have me and two employess one of wich is just a shop errand runner.

I mean soda blasted to bare metal, every nut and bolt replaced, a new engine built, full vete brakes, powder coated suspension, and rear end, and sub frame, as well as a new transmission, and full reproduction interior, custom stereo, covans dash, etc etc there is nothing left of the old car except the floor and the rear half.. new trunk floor but other wise non rusted car.

The total turn around by time im done painting the car will have been 6 or 7 weeks and ill make as much or most likely more in that time as i would have trying to take multiple cars a little at a time and without the headache of complaining customers over time taken, or having to track multiple builds etc etc.
I understand this is not the same situation with all the custom work you have done you simply need to tell people either you are going to have to give me xx per week so i can work on your car solid or you will have to just wait and have it done as it can be done.

as hard as it may be for some of the smaller shops to do you also some times you just have to say no i cant do it right now.

How much of this work are you doing? how much is subed out? i.e. engine, trans, paint, interior, etc... just wondering..

[RaiderLefty]

The seller of the car was a Mopar guy in South Texas who took the car in on trade so he didn't know the history of the car.

Out of curiosity........is this South Texas Mopar guy a dealer or was it a private individual? I bought my '68 Road Runner off a guy in Hutto TX (really central TX) that has pulled many of these EXACT same things with me.

If you won't put it out on the board, feel free to PM me as I'd really be interested to know if it's the same guy.

[svp]

Originally Posted by RaiderLefty

Out of curiosity........is this South Texas Mopar guy a dealer or was it a private individual? I bought my '68 Road Runner off a guy in Hutto TX (really central TX) that has pulled many of these EXACT same things with me.

If you won't put it out on the board, feel free to PM me as I'd really be interested to know if it's the same guy.

I don't recall the city he was in but it was about 25 or so miles from the Mexican border. The car originally came to him from Dallas. This guy claimed to be a dealer and he travels to shows because he was planning a trip to PA for Chryslers at Carlisle.

[RaiderLefty]

Texas Toy Box is the guy I purchased my Road Runner from but Hutto TX is near Austin and that's not 25 miles from Mexico.

Not sure if it's the same guy but many of the tricks you describe sound like the exact things that were done to my car.

Sorry for the hijack.

[sacarguy]

Originally Posted by 96z28ss

Okay so you have 2 guys working on the car or just one guy?

one guy whos sole job is to work on that car and my other guy is on it whenever we don't have anything for him to do on the other lift.

I under stand its rare to find a customer who will pay for non stop work wich is why i dedicate one lift to that and another to off on jobs.

I have two employes.

i assign one guy to work non stop on large jobs on one side of the shop and the other helps him and when a short term quick job comes in he drops off to do that job.

i work out back one everything long and short depending on whats needed at the time plus at the counter/showroom

Originally Posted by SVPJason

How much of this work are you doing? how much is subed out? i.e. engine, trans, paint, interior, etc... just wondering..

The only work not done here at my shop was the actual soda blasting and powder coating we removed the chassis suspension stuff and disasemled it droped it off to be blasted then took it to be coated.

the engine was removed and we ordered the parts had a block machined then assembled the entire engine here at my shop
the trany was a complete built unit from my trans supplier

Everything else was done here in house.. We dont build our own controll arms or anything like that its a built from buyable parts car.

but thats what 99 percent of the cars you build are

then there is the 1 percent that you have to just custom build everything .. and those should realize at the out set thats a LOOOONG term project.

[10Seconds]

Originally Posted by ccracin

I hope I don't upset folks here, but this very issue has been a subject of conversation in my group of friends lately. I somewhat disagree with the previous posters. It seems to me that there are two things that don't usually go together in this business, talented craftsmen and businessmen. This car has only been in your shop too long if it has! I know that sounds stupid. Stick with me. What did you 2 agree on originally? If it was 12 months lets say, it has been there too long. It seems written estimates and quotes are very scarce when it comes to building cars. You imply that the car was not as it was suppose to be when you dug into it. IMO you should have stopped and amended the "written" agreement at that point. If the customer felt it was too much than he has the option to stop. If you have a contract it is up to both parties to live up to it. If the customer stops paying than again you update the contract with the new ETD. After all, if this is your business than you should handle it as such. In most cases when I have read and heard about cars being in prison in a shop, there were no contracts. If there is no target then how are you going to get there? Oh, and I can't stand when I hear how many cars guys have to work on and they use that as an excuse for not meeting deadlines. How many can you do with the staff you have? If you have more than you can handle in a reasonable agreed on amount of time, then that is your fault. That is not an acceptable answer to me. I have to determine the work load for my group every time we bid a new job. I give delivery estimates based on hours available. We don't take jobs we can't deliver on. Simple. It just goes back to WHAT DID YOU GUYS AGREE ON? If the answer is it was a verbal discussion, then I would say you have a problem. I don't see a good ending for either side. I would do what you can to stay professional and get to the end. Oh and I speak from personal experience. We had a "verbal" deal to have a specific amount of work done on our truck for "X" dollars and "X" weeks. In the end it was "2X" dollars an "12X" weeks. No exaggeration. Anyway, I'll get off my soap box. It looks like you do good work, I wish you the best of luck.

Respectfully,

I agree, too often in this business things are done verbally and without proper scopes of work. Everyone needs to be better in this regard because it is important to remember that the people that can afford to just pay someone to build the car like this can also afford to hire attorneys when they feel slighted and believe me they will. I actually know a guy in that position and I talked to the guy who was suing to see if he was open to a settlement. His response: "I don't want money, I have money - I want to see that SOB broke and out on the street. I don't care what it costs."

Obviously, not everyone is like that, but having a paper trail in place can only help you in these situations.

It also does another thing - it helps manage the customers expectations. As they are constantly having to sign paperwork, it makes them stop and think about things and decide if its really important to them. Most issues like this arise out of a lack of communication. Customer wants car done by X, then decides he also needs a full cage and a 4-link rear suspension. If your answer is "no problem" or something like that, then in the customer's mind, you can still get it done on time. So making them sign something saying they understand that this is a significant change and that it will cause the project to take x days longer is going to benefit you.

Lastly, if a shop takes on too much work and a customer who is paying and current on their bills has every right to be frustrated when they stop by and see that no work has been done on their car. That situation is not their fault.

[SVPJason]

Ok... I talked to the guy that owns the car and let him know that the car wouldn't be done by the Mustang 45th anniversary on April 16, but I could have the car at the show as a "work in progress" and after a little persuasion, he agreed. But told him that the car will be done for SEMA. Which I don't see any problems with. And am actually looking forward to.


I appriciate all the suggestions and comments, some have made me think differently about how I do things...

Again thanks..