Vision Too Big For Bank Account????

[Al Moreno]

Originally Posted by evilzee28

To be honest I don't think that things have chnaged that much, it's just that more people are now becoming aware of more unfinished PT cars coming up for sale, as the PT scene grows. The more people that get involved, then the more people are likely to drop out. It's all about percentages really. I've been restoring top end cars for close on 30 years & have found that car builders fall into 3 main categories. The rich ones that money is no object, no parts are too expensive & they are constantly pushing the envelope to be "top dog" in the show arena or on track.

The second type is the one that have the skills to do most of the work themselves & just need a shop like ours to finish things off for them. They budget accordingly & have a clear goal as to what they want within their budget. They go as far as they can by carrying out their own build & then take it to a shop to be finished, which normally includes painting & general build up, leaving the final finish & detailiing to the customer.

The third type of builder though are the ones that haven't fully prepared a plan of attack for the restoration. Unfortunately, these guys have a vision that far exceeds their personal car building skills & a bank balance that doesn't match their dreams. They see all of the "must have" parts being fitted to cars on forums & magazines & tend to follow the trend by buying them.When their lack of car building skills hits home, it comes to a point where they haven't the budget to finish the car by professionals as they've spent their money on unnescessary parts.

My own '69 Camaro is a case in point, the guy I bought it from stripped it to a bare shell, ripping out everything down to the last nut & bolt. He then proceeded to buy parts for it, but rather than just buy the essentials like body panels at that point, so that the rebuild could start, he went out & bought all of the "must have" parts, that he didn't need. By the time he'd finished buying all of the parts, he couldn't afford to have the bodywork done by a professional, as he'd spent all of his money on stuff that he didn't need at that point. Had he just got the essentials to get the car to paint stage, in the time it would take to get it into paint, he would have been able to save the money to buy the "must have" bits. 'Cos the car was just sitting there, with a small fortune of parts sitting in his garage, unable to progress any further, he became disillusioned with it & put it up for sale. This is probably why so many cars are left unfinished, due to poor planning & an unrealistic opinion of how much the car is gonna cost to rebuild

Cheers......Nige

That's some good insight.

[customcam]

Originally Posted by cluxford

Interesting thread, and so chillingly accurate.

Let me say up front:
1. My car building skills are crap. they are OK but not show quality
2. I run my own business and have a young daughter and a wife who could care less about cars (sees them as a waste of time and money)

But from the age of 10 I have wanted a killer Camaro, as the years went buy and cars I could afford came and went, I said I was going to build a top shelf car, and do it soon.

Worked my butt off and got the money.

I had a budget, and I am the first to openly admit that budget was $180K (aussie). I planned to outsource the entire build due to skills and time. I expected it to be 3 years.

Well, I am just over 3 years into the build. It will probably take another 6 months to complete

It's also looking like I'll end up around $250K Aussie.

I can tell ya freight costs for me for all the goodies from Prodigy, the car itself, Bill Mitchell, DSE and Summit to name just a few is in the thousands.

Good news is my car is almost exactly the plan, very little if anything changed, just under estimated the cost to do it.

This car is a life long dream that will soon be complete.

And it will be driven !!

Bottom line, budgets are essential in this game, even for those spending a lot of money on these cars. It's not hard to spend 6 figures on these cars, but even he best budgets can be easily blown.....

250K??? What was the Dollar at when you bought?

[cluxford]

well bought it at 78 cents.

car landed in oz after Fx, freight and taxes for $16K
Engine (World 632) landed after Fx freight and taxes $22K
AME c5 Clip landed in Oz after Fx, freight and taxes $11K

That's $49K right there without a spanner laid to the car

I have also bought
DSE tank
DSE tubs
a ton of Fesler, marquez billet stuff
I have also bought a whole bunch of stuff from Ricks
Dakota digital guages
Retrotek push button shifter ($1K after tax and shipping etc)
Bought two sets of wheels, a custom billet set here in Oz, and just laid out another $4.5K for Rushforths. Only thing I have changed on the car during the build
Strange diff center - after Fx, freight and taxes over $4K at my house
Billet Specialities pulley system
Edelbrock 2 x 600 CFM's in Endura shine
Edelbrock Endura Shine dual quad manifold

$4K in a heavily built TH400

$4.5K in full custom 3" exhaust - full stainless

all of the above is before any labour on the car. Without adding it all up (I do have a spreadsheet) it's has over $100K (Aussie dollars) in car and parts. Note the dollar has swung between 75 cents and 90 cents, I have bought at an average of about 83 cents.

If you take away Fx and freight costs, car and parts are probably around the $70K USD. I don't think this is too unusual for most high end builds on this site, not all but some.

My car is pretty heavily customised, entirely hand build metal interior, so lots of labour costs.

Full custom 4 link built by one of Australia's top drag car chassis builders. Over $6K just in the rear end

There is actually $140K Aussie spent already (cash outlaid).

Not even in paint yet. So I think it will go over the original $180K budget.

We are going to paint 5 coats of base then 4 coast of PPG Vibrance pearl and at least 6-8 coats of clear, so paint alone will be $20-30K, and I still have interior and all electrical stuff, custom radiator, glass kit, custom rubbers to flush mount, still need to smooth the bumpers etc etc

Final note - the car is a 100% outsourced build, first to admit if I want a show quality car, I have neither the skills nor the time, so I have worked my arse off to get the funds to achieve what I want. Happy to share my detail I am not embarrassed by my build, even if it costs more than it should, my view is always you get what you pay for and the builder is just awesome.

[70rs]

^^^^^There is nothing to be embarassed about. Quite the oppisite in fact. You had a goal, earned the funds, planned and researched and are now in the home stretch of realizing your dream! I say GREAT JOB!

[customcam]

Mate im just finding that amount Hard to beleive when i know of other cars that have more expensive parts and fab work and finish that have cost alot lower than that amount.
20-30k in paint ALone.
Just in your engine and front clip you've got about you have over 12 K in just freight cost & Gst....
It doesnt bother me how much you have in your car, its more about me finding the best possible way to cut costs
coz for me to pay a 1/3rd in Freight and fees is hefty!

[cluxford]

Cool, wasn't upset, as said happy to share...very excited I get to put my new Rushforth's on today woo hoo !

[customcam]

I just had a look at those Rushforths also. Shiny or what

[syborg tt]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Mike , I do the same exact thing . Owning my own buisness allows me some extra cash . When I have it I buy something new for the car. I will not spend money I don't have ! Over the last three years I have a pretty good inventory of parts . My wife always tells people when they ask ,'' Whats all those car parts doing in your garage, well its the most expensive car I've never seen'' .... It is a addiction no question. But I have to say I believe its a good one to have.

LOL - Your wife an my wife must be the same since my wife say's the same thing.

Even funnier --Kenny, Kenny Who.

Even better -- Tracy - now there is a Tracy

Okay so back to the post at hand.

I've built countless Trucks and a hadful of cars.

Something happended several years back and I decided to see what I could do if I started a project and then teamed up with the best shop out there. The goal was to build something completely different and do it over time. For me it's about the journey. I love planning the build, sourcing the parts, finding new idea's for each phase of the build.

I've met and worked with some incredible people. For me it's all about the friendship and the hobby.

I don't drink, I don't smoke, don't do drugs and I'm married so I don't have nearly as much sex I would like ( please I hope my wife doesn't read this ). heck I don't even drink soda as i find it's a waste of money.

So I have more money available for my hobby them most. If I spend more the 7 or 8 bucks on lunch / dinner I am actually angry because to me that's money I could be spending on my hobbies ( cars & Mountain Bikes )

Trust me you think car's are expensive try spending $1400.00 for a set of rims for a bike. The $200.00 for disk brakes and $100.00 for a cassette and you still have to pedal it up hill.

I have no clue if what i've posted makes any sense for me it was just a rant and I do feel better.

ps The next project which is in the planning stage will be on a completely different budget plan but should attract just as much attention as my current build.

[syborg tt]

Awesome Web site - i've looked at it many times

Originally Posted by chr2002ca

Yep, same stuff happened to me during my build, and mine wasn't half as complex as some of these I see out there. Much more time and money than I thought it would be. And I'm still spending to get it right. It just goes on and on. That's the very reason why I dumped all the details into my own build site, to give people some realistic insight into what it really takes and how all those small things and parts and costs really add up. My site is more of a 'warning' than anything. A few of the people who have signed my guestbook have mentioned things like "thanks for opening my eyes" and "I had no idea", so I hope maybe my passing along of details is helping a few people in one way or another.

Yes, Lateral-g has cost me some money also, but without it and the contributions of all its members, I probably would have never built my car and made some great friends from here. So to hell with my empty wallet, it was worth it.

[ALLSPEED01]

[Quote:
I'll leave it with this... I love fussing with my hobby -- but I love fussing around with the FRIENDS I've made because of my hobby, more. In the end - it's about the PEOPLE - not the cars... The pasta is just there to get the sauce to your face.. cars are that way for me... I've met GREAT people of all walks of life because the car hobby makes me get out and do stuff... I have friends whose cars break down every time they drive them... and I'm called upon to help rescue them... and we always end up having fun with the "experience". I have friends that have MILLIONS of dollars invested in cars... and we have just as much fun blowing their stuff up - or scheming about "what coulda shoulda"...

I'd like to have Ironworks - or Prodigy - or Comp-Spec build me a car - but not because I want to impress any of you with how much I can spend - I'd do it because I'd love to hang with them - and learn from them - and be friends long after the build was finished... I can buy their shops and close 'em up and never skip a beat... but I'd sweep their floors for months just to be around what they're doing. Does that make sense to anyone? It's why we all hang around Lat G isn't it? The hobby. I don't care if people even own a car... if they love the hobby and choose to participate, regardless of their level. [/QUOTE]


Greg,
Well said!
I totally agree if you don't drive it...don't buy it!
What a thought provoking thread. After reading this I find myself sitting here and just smiling thinking of all the funny circumstances and interesting people that I have met because of cars. I have been involved with this crazy hobby since birth, my father owned a few local service stations back in the 70's and it was normal to just hang out at the shop. I got my first car a 68 camaro when I was 14 and my friends and I used to work on it in my mothers driveway including using her tupperware to drain the oil in. (not a good idea by the way) During and just after high school I was heavily involved in sand drag racing and most recently I started All Speed. My point is I have a thousand great stories that involve cars and interesting people. I have heard many times that what matters is the journey and not the destination...and you can not put a price on a good time. I deal with all types of people that pass through the shop doors and all I can say is that I'm sure they all have their individual reasons, plans, budgets etc. for their projects, and yes they all get carried away in their own respects. But what really matters in the long run is if they had fun doing it. I think I speak for all of us when I say we would all do it again... and have a smile on our face! Thats what is so cool about this hobby a millionaire can hang out with a mechanic, and guy with a $200K car can go cruising with a guy with a $20k or less car and they can both have fun. Maybe we should start a thread on "car memories"? By the way no offense to you Greg but I have been in Todd's garage and I would call him to sweep ASP!