Project "Payback"

[Vegas69]

I'm just been busy mainly with work and life but been prepping the car for my run over to L.A. to make the West coast swing with the boys. I've decided to drive my car to L.A. to Dougs house, up to Pleasanton Good Guys, and back home. (If the weather looks decent)

You know me, I can't leave anything along. Since I"ll be driving 750 miles minimum and my R888's got thrashed at RTTC, I swapped the tires out for the BFG KDW's this week. My boy Joe at Findlay Customs swapped them out for me. Wow, what a pain in the ass that was not scuffing a wheel.

I also decided to change the master cylinder from 7/8 to 1". I had one laying on the shelf. After inspecting the old 7/8 and bleeding the brakes, the 7/8 was in poor shape. The front lines and calipers were full of grungy fluid with metal particles. I think the excessive brake pedal travel caused some bore wear. Let's see, I figure 25 turns per run, per autocross. That means approximatlely 250 pumps per event!

I made a pinion angle change just using common sense. I ended up moving te pinion down until my working angles were within .5 but not equal and opposite. The front angle is 3.5 and the rear is 3.0. That's the best it can be without chopping up the tunnel in the car.

Other than that I replaced the drive belt and topped checked all my fluids. I did a bolt check on some misc fasteners.

I finally took it out for a ride tonight. I couldn't belive how high the pedal was right out of the gate. Something didn't feel right but I hadn't driven it yet with the new master cylinder. I got to the freeway and got about a mile down the road and it was apparent the brakes were applying themselves! I had to drop in in second and then 1st to get into a parking lot. Luckily I carry a mini tool kit. I pulled out the cotter pin and spun the pedal rod clevis in a couple turns and it was fixed. There was pedal play before but I guess it wasn't enough. Anyway, my brake pad knock back seems to be fixed. I can't believe it. A ******* master cylinder change is all it took. The brakes are so much better. The pedal is way higher, it's firmer, and honestly doesn't require much more leg. 7/8 bore master is the wrong cylinder for my car. Glad it's fixed. I can't wait to race this thing without pumping brakes! Maybe I'll read a magazine instead of pumping brakes. The pinion angle change made the car run out the smoothest it's ever been. It's staying that way for good. It did change my rear ride height and the car feels different. I'm hoping dropping it the .5-.75 get's my feel back. I hope it's not these BFG tires causing the feel change. It doesn't feel like my sorted car right now. The bias is off so I hope it fixes it. I'll find out this weekend. Forward bite seems about the same on the street so far. No pictures, I'm strung between my house and new office and we're closing on our new house tomorrow. I'll have a new shop to tinker in soon. It's about time to put a fork in this one, I may just take on somebody elses project for fun down the road here.

[pokey64]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

It's about time to put a fork in this one, I may just take on somebody elses project for fun down the road here.

Well if your bored we could just swap 69s and you could start sorting mine out! J/K. It's been fun and informatve watching you refine the car. Looking forward to seeing more videos of you ripping up the tracks! Congrats on the new shop/house.

[Bow Tie 67]

Nice work with the master cylinder, if your knock back is gone you'll be a very happy camper while racing.

Now get her to a drag strip just for ****s and giggles.

[GregWeld]

Good to hear that news Todd!

Funny that all it took was a MC change. Buddies come by the shed all the time with some "issue" or another... they've got all manor of theories and big $$ cause and effect... Then I'll ask them about something they've "changed" or if they
checked "blah blah".. and you can see their eyes go wide.. and the wheels start churning. My point it - most of the time - it's something real simple.

I got a good laugh at the 1st gear to keep moving to get off the street. I did the same thing in the Nomad. Barely made it to a parking lot! Had to call Gwen to bring me a 9/16"... I wasn't going anywhere - those brakes were "bedded"!

So will you be running the KDW's at track events? Or is this a street tire? You get extra points now for running BFG's at certain events right? Like at RTTC and that "series"?

[Vegas69]

Pappy, it would need to move under it's own power to work the bugs out. Get that hot rod moving so we can have some fun.

I'm hoping one of the events has a drag race. It's definitely on the list of musts....

Greg, it wasn't just the master cylinder. Changing from the roller to tapered bearing and having Wilwood re design a retainer with more pre load certainly cut it way down. Between Frank and Wilwod telling me over and over that a 1" bore was wrong, I just didn't think it was going to make that big a difference. To be honest, it was a desperation move. I figured it would make some difference with the compromise of stepping on a brick. Now I'm out of excuses. Damn... I couldn't make the pedal move on the street and I could always simulate it almost full scale. I think it will a HUGE improvement on the track. I've never had good brakes on the track. I should say without a quick pump. Clearly in the Baer Speed Stop Challenge I didn't need to pump them.
The BFG's are one to stay until they are worn out. All the events are now 200 treadwear. The only idea I have is to buy a spare set of wheels and throw some A6's on them for local SCCA events. That would require trailering the car to the event and I'm not crazy about that. With two houses and some remodeling and repairs, that is not on the radar right now.

[tones2SS]

Glad you got it sorted out Todd! Such a killer car.
Did you say you were looking to build someone else's project for a change?!!?

[mfain]

Ouch -- I work on it every day, but I don't have Greg's tools, so I'm a little slow. Glad you're getting your car sorted the way you want it. I haven't heard you say anything about the earlier loose condition lately. What did you finally do with the rear sway bar?

Pappy

[Vegas69]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

It's about time to put a fork in this one,.

I forgot to knock on wood with this statement. Even though it made no sense to me, I adjusted the master cylinder rod length after the brakes locked up on me and it seemed to solve the issue the rest of the night. The next day I decided to drive it out to our new house and low and behold the brakes locked up as I got to the house! Clearly it was due to different conditions. When I put the new 1" bore master in, it was a different designed piston. I felt there was plenty of slack between the piston and push rod. I guess I was wrong. The problem is, I must angle the rod upwards to put the clevis pin in the pedal arm. I'm guessing it's 1-2 degrees beyond the natural freeplay. So, it's putting a little residual pressure in the lines once things expand. 666hp will not overcome these brakes. The fronts locked up and I had to do a burnout to get in the garage.

Today I moved my shop over to the new house. I now have a 950 sqft main garage and 600sqft shop. I set the shop up the best I could and tore down the master cylinder. I found that the interference fit between the pushrod bevel and master cylinder piston insert was to tight. I ground down the insert .150 and shimmed it to fit after some measurments. Without the insert I only have .025-.030 interference fit which won't make me feel to good sailing it inot turn one at 80mph.


I measured the angle available before depressing the piston and it was only 6 degrees. After making my adjustment it's roughly triple at 18 degrees. I'm estimating I only need 8 degrees to eliminate the problem. I think it's time for a new angle finder.

Only I would scratch up a polished master cylinder. Don't mind big red and the stripper in the back ground.

This picture sucks but it's my new shop. I don't know which camera is in my new office, old house, or new house, or a box. Man it's nice to have nearly a half acre to roam.

[GregWeld]

Hell with the car.... Nice SHED!

EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA


I don't understand why you'd have so much angle on the rod... is that what you had to do to get a 6:1 pedal ratio?

Also - most of the push rods I've seen already are ground with a slight taper...

Hey - the bright side!

You know you've bedded the brakes.

You know your brakes work really well

You know the bias is set a little to the front (as it should be)

Your neighbors now KNOW you're some kind of weird azzhole that is just a bit crazy and the ones that hate cars will leave you alone and the car guys in the hood will know you've arrived.

[Vegas69]

Thanks man, I'm excited about my new shop! I'm using the factory manual pedal hole. I don't need the 18 degrees, it's only around 6-8 degrees. The pushrod is actually ground beveled. The insert was just to long and not allowing enough wiggle room for my application. Should have her back on the road today. I just need to find a leg. Still seems to work the best when starting from scratch. I need to buy an air bleeder.