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Old 01-03-2011, 12:22 PM
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Default Power Steering: AGR vs Lee, 670 vs 800, 69 BBC Camaro, Review

Just thought I'd share some information and experiences about these 2 different boxes since I've had some 'experience' with AGR and recently did a replacement to a Lee power steering box. I have a 69 Camaro with a ZZ454, NOS 69 BBC motor mounts and frame stands, and Hedman 2" primary headers(part number 66001).

AGR: 12:1 power steering box, 800 series Saginaw, custom billet AGR cap which is a bit thicker than the stock steel cap

AGR Install: In order to install this box, I had to ding/dimple my headers in 3 locations. I also had to grind down one of the edges of the billet cap and replace one of the bolts with an allen head bolt. This is the fault of my headers, not the box. Other than the headers and the tight tolerances, it bolts right in. I do have to loosen my headers and remove the pitman arm before installing or removing, and it must go in from underneath the car.

AGR Review: The first box I installed had way too much slop in it. It was scary to drive. I removed it and sent it to AGR where they inspected it and verified that it indeed had an 'unusual' amount of slop in it. They 'repaired it' and sent it back to me and I reinstalled it. It was indeed a bit tighter but after only 50 miles the input shaft seal blew out and spit fluid all over my ceramic coated headers. Lovely. This time I sent the box back to Summit and they sent me a new one. This '3rd' attempt was better, but there was still too much play in it, but I was so tired of dealing with the installation/removal of the thing that I just left it in place. This box was in use for about 1.5 years until I removed it last week. Also, the finish on the AGR box is non-existent, so it's a good idea to paint it before installing or else it will start rusting fairly quickly. Overall, I can't recommend AGR to anyone. Some people have had great luck with them(I'm jealous), but I had very bad luck. The good news is, I now have a great anchor for a canoe.

So I called Lee Manufacturing and actually drove to their shop and had a chat with them in person and saw their facilities. Very nice people. I ordered a new 670 power steering box, rag joint, and I had my pump re-valved to match their box. They said they'd be done by the following Friday and were finished a day early on Thursday(how often does that happen?). Including tax and shipping these parts back to my door, it was about $780 total. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Keep reading.

Lee Box: 670-series 12.7:1. Slightly smaller and lighter(about 6lbs) than the 800 series box.

Lee Install: Even though it's slightly smaller, it has 2 critical places where it actually sticks out farther than the 800 series causing it to fit worse than an 800 series box when using headers like mine. @#$@#$! I had to ding in my number 5 and number 7 primaries even further than I had to with the 800 series box. The dings are so bad that they are most likely restrictive, so next time I pull the engine I plan to remove the headers and have the number 5 and 7 primaries cut out and re-worked by a custom header shop. Other than the headers and the tight tolerances, it bolts right in. I do have to loosen my headers and remove the pitman arm before installing or removing, and it must go in from underneath the car. Same process as the 800 series box.

Lee Review: Now we're talking. Very tight steering. No play or slop. Very responsive. I should've gone with Lee in the first place. It's only been in for a few days now so I can't provide any long-term/reliability review at this point, but so far I'm very happy and wish I had used them in the first place. It would have saved me an extreme amount of trouble and frustration. Easily worth the extra money.

Header Recommendations: If you have a first-gen Camaro and a big block and want to run an 800 series or 670 series power steering box, I would NOT use the Hedmans or any other headers where the number 5 primary runs straight down. I would go with Lemons or some other header that has the number 5 primary loop over the number 7 primary, and the number 7 primary curves in more quickly after exiting the flange.

Hope this information helps the next guy.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:36 PM
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Thanks for the review! I'll definitely go with a Lee box when the time comes
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:29 PM
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Chris -- very nice informative review. I really enjoy these posts. Thanks for posting.

My car came with the AGR box, and it seems fine -- but never experienced a Lee box so maybe I don't know what I am missing.

Are you running a stock or aftermarket PS pump? I need one and am debating what to get.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash68 View Post
Chris -- very nice informative review. I really enjoy these posts. Thanks for posting.

My car came with the AGR box, and it seems fine -- but never experienced a Lee box so maybe I don't know what I am missing.

Are you running a stock or aftermarket PS pump? I need one and am debating what to get.
Dude, I hate to say it, but get the aftermarket pump with that box--it makes a difference---ask me how i know. Besides that, that stock one will not hold up forever under the kind of driving you will be doing.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:41 PM
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That's awesome Chris. Glad to hear you got it replaced and the car feels much better. At last, some good news--other than the 50 HP you lost on the header pipe close outs, it sounds like it was a great change for the car. Just in time for RTTC!

Great review and write up also!

Doug
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by DFRESH View Post
That's awesome Chris. Glad to hear you got it replaced and the car feels much better. At last, some good news--other than the 50 HP you lost on the header pipe close outs, it sounds like it was a great change for the car. Just in time for RTTC!

Great review and write up also!

Doug
LOL. I sure hope I didn't lose 50HP! I have a mild cam so I'm thinking there is still enough pipe there to be plenty for the exhaust flow, but my next engine won't like it at all. The foundation of that new engine arrives to my doorstep today(f'ing Summit 15% discount!). Very exciting. Unfortunately, I won't have the funds to build it until later next year, so that's a long ways out. Definitely look forward to RTTC. I've changed a number of things on the car to make it exactly as fast as it was last year.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash68 View Post
Chris -- very nice informative review. I really enjoy these posts. Thanks for posting.

My car came with the AGR box, and it seems fine -- but never experienced a Lee box so maybe I don't know what I am missing.

Are you running a stock or aftermarket PS pump? I need one and am debating what to get.
I'm running a stock style Saginaw P style pump that I purchased from Summit(#SUM340103). It's a basic pump, nothing special. I asked Lee to rebuild to match the new box and to rebuild it so that it would take some occasional racing. So it's slightly lower pressure at low RPM which causes a little more effort in steering, but hopefully that saves me from having too much pressure at high RPM. I don't get over 5800RPMs so I'm not stressing the pump too much like some folks might.

I've talked with people that have had good luck with AGR and talked with people that had the same experience I did, so I think it's a bit random. Honestly, I don't think there should be that much randomness for that kind of money. When I spoke with Lee, they actually had a good explanation for why that randomness might occur with other vendors and it's why they completely disassemble and rebuild each unit they get from GM. Who knows, maybe a 4th try with AGR would've worked out, but it's such a pain in the arse for me to remove that box so I just wanted to try something new that might eliminate 'chance'. Each person I talked to that used Lee was very happy, so I gave them a shot. Now, if the Lee box blows out at RTTC, I'm going yank the whole steering system and just tie 2 ropes to the steering knuckles and go that route.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:44 AM
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The valve is more "restrictive" than the ding in the header pipe...



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Old 01-04-2011, 09:56 AM
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Gotta love the do overs... See you next month!
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld View Post
The valve is more "restrictive" than the ding in the header pipe...



You haven't seen the ding! Make that 'dings'. They're almost as bad as the ones in my head, and those have been restrictive all my life.
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