Question for our metal fabricators!!! - Lateral-g Forums

speedfreak · #1 02-03-2011, 08:58 PM

[QUOTE=ironworks;326384]These pictures from Tyler's 50/50 car might give you some idea of how it is done. The fit is CRUCIAL for Tig welding. You cannot get great results with a Mig. You can do OK, but not what you can with a Tig. The fit up is super important. Then you need an air hose and and lots of patience.

Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice..... You can always improve

What rod are you guys using for this ?

Thanks,
Brian

**DOOM** · #2 02-09-2011, 07:28 AM

[QUOTE=speedfreak;330743]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironworks

These pictures from Tyler's 50/50 car might give you some idea of how it is done. The fit is CRUCIAL for Tig welding. You cannot get great results with a Mig. You can do OK, but not what you can with a Tig. The fit up is super important. Then you need an air hose and and lots of patience.

Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice..... You can always improve

What rod are you guys using for this ?

Thanks,
Brian

I'm learning that you have to get the metal as tight as possible. I found this out real fast. You try and fill gaps with the mig and you always wind up with small pin holes from a hot edge. I'm on my third set of wheel house's I better learn this fast its getting expensive! I have a new tig but I'm not even thinking of pulling this out until I learn how to get this mig thing figured out....

ironworks · #3 02-10-2011, 07:44 PM

[QUOTE=DOOM;331644]

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedfreak

I'm learning that you have to get the metal as tight as possible. I found this out real fast. You try and fill gaps with the mig and you always wind up with small pin holes from a hot edge. I'm on my third set of wheel house's I better learn this fast its getting expensive! I have a new tig but I'm not even thinking of pulling this out until I learn how to get this mig thing figured out....

Honestly, Trying to get it figured out with a MIG is totally different then a TIG. If you scribe tight light to trim and fit you can tack it up with the MIG. But learning how to weld sheetmetal is like trying to learn how to ride a bicycle when you want to ride a unicycyle. Just start now with the tig on 20amps and maybe buy some MIG wire to not build up your welds to much while your learning. The TIG welders out number MIG welders 5-2 in my shop and all my MIG welders are 110 volt except 1. I have 1 220 volt MIG.

Spend your time learning how to trim and fit sheetmetal very tight. Then learn to tack with the TIG.

Learn to cut gap and fit like this

**GregWeld** · #4 02-10-2011, 11:10 PM

So.... looking at the HAZ on the fresh weld... it appears to be a series of smallish half inchers... More than a 'tack' but not a complete run either?

Did the welder (as in person not machine) skip and fill or just choose to weld small runs cooling as they went? Or?

We had some discussion about this at dinner but didn't follow up (my A.D.D. probably kicked in).

**DOOM** · #5 02-11-2011, 09:01 AM

Honestly, Trying to get it figured out with a MIG is totally different then a TIG. If you scribe tight light to trim and fit you can tack it up with the MIG. But learning how to weld sheetmetal is like trying to learn how to ride a bicycle when you want to ride a unicycyle. Just start now with the tig on 20amps and maybe buy some MIG wire to not build up your welds to much while your learning. The TIG welders out number MIG welders 5-2 in my shop and all my MIG welders are 110 volt except 1. I have 1 220 volt MIG.

Spend your time learning how to trim and fit sheetmetal very tight. Then learn to tack with the TIG.

Thanx for the pictures Roger!! I been avoiding my tig welder but I know its time to pull it out and start learning. It's a Hobart EZ-TIG 165i I figured this would be a simple machine to start with. I have spent more time fitting and it does make a big difference...

ironworks · #6 02-11-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOOM

Thanx for the pictures Roger!! I been avoiding my tig welder but I know its time to pull it out and start learning. It's a Hobart EZ-TIG 165i I figured this would be a simple machine to start with. I have spent more time fitting and it does make a big difference...

Just buy some flat sheet (18gauge) cut some strips and weld it back together. If yo ever want to be the internet superstar Jason (WAR) #9 is, you will have to become one with you TIG. Cut and fit, tack it together, and weld little bits. Weld about aninch and cool it with the Air hose. Weld another inch, then cool it. Repeat this process for about 12-16 inches. Then sand just the weld smooth not the base metal. Maybe use a die grinder wheel to knock the top off.

This thread makes me think we should offer a class or seminar for this skill. It's not hard, but just takes practice and experience. But having some weekend guidance would good.

**GregWeld** · #7 02-11-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironworks

Just buy some flat sheet (18gauge) cut some strips and weld it back together. If yo ever want to be the internet superstar Jason (WAR) #9 is, you will have to become one with you TIG. Cut and fit, tack it together, and weld little bits. Weld about aninch and cool it with the Air hose. Weld another inch, then cool it. Repeat this process for about 12-16 inches. Then sand just the weld smooth not the base metal. Maybe use a die grinder wheel to knock the top off.

This thread makes me think we should offer a class or seminar for this skill. It's not hard, but just takes practice and experience. But having some weekend guidance would good.

Don't forget to clamp your work! (even while practicing) Welding is more than just making a pretty little puddle -- it's as important, if not more important, to have the work NOT WARP!

Just for those reading this thread -- take the two strips Rodger suggests -- lay them flat side by side -- then just do a nice tack at one extreme end. Look at the other end - the gap will have grown!

To do this properly -- clamp the crap out of it (both strips) = tack one end - then the other end - then the middle - then split that again. Now the gap won't move on you.... BUT if you unclamped and finished your weld - the piece will warp... so you leave your clamps --- move them as required to work - and keep it clamped to the flat work space. Weld and cool and weld and cool and keep cooling before you unclamp. It will still warp but that's what you'd work out with a hammer and dolly if you're doing this on a body part.

Remember -- every time you melt (heat) the metal - that area GROWS - and that area also SHRINKS as it cools. The one little spot you melted - and then shrunk is going to move differently than all the other larger metal around the weld area. Clamping and controlling your heat is the way you're trying to control the movement as much as possible... but there is also WHERE you choose to place your welds - because HOW and WHERE you weld will also help counteract the movement.

To picture this in your head -- think of welding a "T" --- (I can't make the T upside down but picture it that way). SO make an inside corner weld on one side of the T and the T won't be straight anymore... but if you tacked the two ends and tacked in the middle = Tack one end on one side and the other tack on the end on the OPPOSITE side.. Check for 90* at this point and adjust - tack the middle - check again and adjust... Now weld a bit on ONE SIDE and then your next weld needs to be on the OPPOSITE side. The metal will pull to the side you welded on -- then will pull back to the direction your next weld was on.

It's all kind of hard to explain via these forums but trust me when I tell you - there's more to "welding" than just the bead.

The other thing amateurs do is they fit up the piece -- then start tacking or whatever. They never pick up a hammer and dolly, or whatever tool they need to use, and ADJUST the piece as they go. They just weld away - then when they're done they wonder why it doesn't look all pretty like the pictures of other guys work. You've got to "work" the metal as you go IF necessary... to keep warpage down - to keep the gap tight - and blah blah blah. It's not just fit once and weld it. This stuff takes some patience and some some eyeball time - and adjustment as you go.

**DOOM** · #8 04-21-2011, 08:23 AM

[QUOTE=ironworks;331984]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOOM

Honestly, Trying to get it figured out with a MIG is totally different then a TIG. If you scribe tight light to trim and fit you can tack it up with the MIG. But learning how to weld sheetmetal is like trying to learn how to ride a bicycle when you want to ride a unicycyle. Just start now with the tig on 20amps and maybe buy some MIG wire to not build up your welds to much while your learning. The TIG welders out number MIG welders 5-2 in my shop and all my MIG welders are 110 volt except 1. I have 1 220 volt MIG.

Spend your time learning how to trim and fit sheetmetal very tight. Then learn to tack with the TIG.

Learn to cut gap and fit like this

Roger is that a cut a tight fit or is that a slight gap? If its a gap are you using a filler rod?

**GregWeld** · #9 04-21-2011, 08:44 AM

Mario --

The "pros" might offer a different opinion - but a "gap" is a burn through for me. I can jump the gap (I weld far more than the average guy but nowhere near what a pro does) but it's far more work and makes it far harder to weld.

Do not listen to the instructions on the tungsten stick out rules (3 x's the dia)...
If I can't SEE the tungsten I can't weld... so I run a bit more stickout (I also run a gas lens so gas flow is better - to cool the tungsten).

The fill is a coordination 'dance' for me - I move my torch forward which pushes the puddle forward and then I bring it back just a schoosh and as I do that I dip the fill then advance that (pushing it forward) and so on. I'm an old school gas welder - where you made circles with the torch and dipped the fill when the circle was 180* at the back of the circle (does that make sense). And I've tried that technique with my TIG torch but found it to not be necessary.

Do you have a foot control? I light it up - get the puddle started and immediately back off - dip - push forward - move back - dip - forward - and always watching the puddle and using the foot control to add or subtract heat as needed. I always "coast" up to the end of a weld - dipping a couple times to finish (eliminates the crater).

Also -- do you have the torch angled back - I'm probably at 30 to 45*. You can't angle back as much if your stick out isn't right... and the heat goes up as the gap of the arc lengthens (that might not be technically correct - but it's what I see). I keep the arc pretty tight - so on thin gauge sheet metal - the arc length is probably only a 1/8th inch maybe less.

Don't give up -- TIG is the best welding a guy can do.... the clean up is far less (easier) and the control is by far the best.

**DOOM** · #10 04-21-2011, 09:35 AM

Thanx Greg!! I'm commited to make this work I never give up ... But it is frustrating let me tell you . I'll bring my tungsten out a little more,and I just ordered the glass lens for the tig tourch. I do think vision is a big part of my problem. Its a little harder for me I have no vision in my right eye. I hope the new helmet works better than my Miller.. I looked at Rogers picture and I figured that it was a gap . Man thats some crazy control to be able to fill that gap..