diesel or gas

[GregWeld]

BTW -- Just to be perfectly clear -- Personally there's no way I'd buy a gas truck... I tow way too much and I want the full monty deal of being able to blow past people while pulling the grapevine!

BUT -- If someone is asking about a suitable truck and states they only tow very occasionally... and lives in Texas (pretty flat)... then I can't see much of an argument for selling him a diesel. The added expense.. up front and per gallon just doesn't make much sense for the "power".

My Brother in Laws company switched their entire fleet to gas last year... and they're in the heavy equipment business (Pape)... while he would prefer to have the diesel... he'll be the first to tell you his gas truck is just "fine".

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by clill

Hey Greg...

That's funny!


To me -- RETARDED -- is FORD only selling 4X4's in the bigger trucks. I'd replace my '06 F-350 but I can only get it with 4 wheel drive. Hummmmmm...
I'm not towing much in the snow.

[DRJDVM's '69]

I went through the same thing about 8 months ago. I dont tow very often, but I prefer to overengineer stuff than to just "get by", so I ended up getting a 2500 Ram diesel and its been great. It drives around town like a gas truck and tows a 20 ft enclosed car trailer with a car no problem.

The fuel mileage vs the fuel price makes that aspect a wash in my book.

We just towed a 20 ft boat with my friend gas Expedition....it could do it, but it didnt do it very well and the diesel will tolerate being "abused" way better than a gas truck.

This is my first diesel and I'm pretty happy that I did.....

[mike343sharpstk]

This is great stuff, thanks all for you input.
Next year I’ll be replacing my ’01 Durango (4.7 V8, tow package, 3.90’s, lsd, etc) with something bigger and better. I ‘thought’ the Durango had enough power… Until I pulled a car through the mountains of Virginia- Holly @#$#@*!

Lesson learned.

Towing in a flat area is one thing, but man, oh man, those mountain grades had me putting my foot to the floor on both the pedals! Not the proper tool for the job, and once my race car is done I’ll be towing more and more.

I expect 200,000 miles out of any vehicle, and I take care of them appropriately. The Durango has 170,000 with no drive-train issues at the moment, but it's showing its age elsewhere. In the past the Diesel drive trains were just plain made to run longer than the gas units. Not sure that this is still the case?

I’m very seriously looking at that next purchase being a used Dodge with the Diesel. But I could be swayed at this point. I already find that I tow “stuff” more than I ever thought I would, from my enclosed motorcycle trailer to whatever random car needs to be moved around, or patio block, or ???. Plus, 4x4 winter duty is important here.

It’s fun to shop, but when I write the check I want to make damn sure it’s for the correct tool!

[70rs]

For what it's worth when I sold at a local Chevy dealer that particular store sold diesels 5 to 1 over gas.
Now up here we have real live mountains. And in this county A LOT of livestock moving (heavy towing often).
That being said, those new diesel sales were usually to the people towing several times per month. That alone tells me the towing issue is in favor of diesels hands down. No brainer there.

But for the average guy who commutes, hunts, camps, tows once in awhile or just likes driving a truck the gas motors are fine.
High mile diesels take a bit more maintenance and that does cost more on average than the gas trucks. Even the oil changes and air & fuel filters can be double or more than a gas motor.
I have owned both a 2500 6.0 gas and a 5.3 1500 (current)
And both were VERY cheap to maintain.
The few times I wished for more power with either really didn't justify me buying a diesel.
The boat I towed with the 6.0 (with close to 200k) was about 7000 pounds fully loaded including trailer.
Only on the steep and long grades did I want more grunt. But that was so I could cruise at 75 instead of 55/60.

Sorry if my rambling doesn't help. But I just didn't NEED diesel. But I sure do WANT one.

[wmhjr]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Okay -- I just made it up. Except that it's true. I personally wouldn't believe it except that we've now made 3 or 4 trips together... with his new gas truck.

The milage he's getting is 7+ ------- I get 10.4 to me that's close enough when you do the math and figure what I paid EXTRA for the diesel. And I pay more per gallon for diesel at each fill up.

The last two trips I'm dragging my '32 Ford - he's got my Nomad that weighs almost DOUBLE the '32.... So you can do that math as well.

Greg, a few things. Thanks for posting the numbers - it helps.

First, if you just say 7.4 instead of 7+, it still means you get more than 40% better mileage than him. Maybe it's just me, but that isn't even close. How would you like a 40% interest rate on a savings account?

Beyond that, why is your mileage so bad on your diesel? I routinely pull 8k in my 24ft enclosed (gross trailer and contents) and I never get less than 15 even at 75mph cruise in serious terrain. I usually average closer to 17+. A family member has the ford v10 and while it pulls ok it can't keep up and eats twice the fuel. I got rid of my 5.3 1500 but we still have the 2500 6l. I burn 50% less fuel in the cummins, faster, with more weight.

Maybe it's a powerstroke thing? I'm way more familiar with the cummins and dmax. We live in very hilly terrain here and people would be screaming if their diesels only got 10.4.

[rwhite692]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

That's funny!


To me -- RETARDED -- is FORD only selling 4X4's in the bigger trucks. I'd replace my '06 F-350 but I can only get it with 4 wheel drive. Hummmmmm...
I'm not towing much in the snow.

As an aside, I was VERY glad that mine is a 4X4 the one time I got my 36' fifth wheel travel trailer (12K lbs, dry) into a soft patch of muddy grass on the shoulder of a state park road.... put it in low and eased her out. Would not have made it out, otherwise.

[wmhjr]

Btw, I agree with a lot that Greg said. Here are some downsides of the diesel.

If you get the manual tranny like my 6spd which is clearly the best for over the road pulling and economy, it can be very tedious in daily driving. The diesels don't accelerate quite as quick as a gasser.

SOME diesels are noisy (pstroke)

Diesel trucks cost more and fuel is more expensive.

Diesels are heavy.

Major repairs can be expensive.

Here are some upsides of diesels.

Way more pulling power. Period. Torque, baby.I'm making more than 600lbs at 1400rpm. Nuffield said.

SOME diesels last hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm at 230k and barely broke in the cummins.

You use way less fuel. Empty or loaded. Mpg is very consistent almost regardless of load.

Depending on the engine, repairs are infrequent. For me, a water pump at 230k miles.

Diesels hold their value.

Did I say way more power?


Here's the big difference. I don't care who you are, if you're in a gasser pulling a heavy load through anything other than perfectly flat terrain, you don't look forward to it. With a good diesel, pulling becomes fun and effortless.

So I do agree with Greg that while getting the 3/4 ton is essential for anyone really thinking about pulling (please don't try to convince me that 1/2ton trucks pull well as Ive had too many) if you only pull once in a while and it isn't serious the. A diesel isn't necessary. Of course, neither are our cars

[GregWeld]

WM --

I guess that you've confirmed my "thoughts" with the OP. He lives in flatland... and only tows infrequently - and the gas truck - while not what I'd buy - would be "fine" and I think that's what information he was looking for.

I get HORRIBLE milage... Pstroke 6.0L - With Banks Big Hoss bundle so every option they make.... but I have a 1 ton dually - with 4:10 gears... I pull a heavy (relatively) trailer that is LOADED with stuff... as in full tool box - compressor - 8000# winch and battery... generator... ez ups - cabinets and overheads... floor jack (not a little hydraulic bottle jack) and fully finished inside... so the trailer is a little heavier than a comparable sized "plain jane" version. My Nomad weighs in at 4023 lbs. I get no difference in towing that or the '32. Best I've ever gotten is 11.2 MPG. The truck weighs 9000 #'s empty. But it goes like stink and NOBODY is going to pull a hill faster.

Totally agree with your statement re: our cars etc... it's never a matter of "need" -- just desire and floating your own boat - whatever that takes.

My next truck will be a SportChassis size -- and a trailer with living quarters etc -- and I will option the truck with the biggest HP diesel engine available... just because I can't do it any other way and be happy/satisfied. There is ZERO need for any of it. I just want it.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by rwhite692

As an aside, I was VERY glad that mine is a 4X4 the one time I got my 36' fifth wheel travel trailer (12K lbs, dry) into a soft patch of muddy grass on the shoulder of a state park road.... put it in low and eased her out. Would not have made it out, otherwise.

That can be fixed by learning how to drive better....

No need for the 4X4... and the ONCE you needed it could have been fixed with a WINCH... or using your cell phone and calling a tow truck etc. I just don't NEED to carry all the weight and drivetrain components on a truck that is used for HIWAY recreational towing.