diesel or gas

[69MyWay]

I work in a vehicle research department. One of the things we track are failure rates and defects with various trucks - especially considering diesel issues.

Let me tell you this - when a diesel breaks - it is expensive. The fuel system is the weak link. Diesel fuel is dirty by nature - has water and dirt in it right out of the pump. As you know, diesel engines have water in fuel filter systems. It is CRUCIAL these are drained and serviced regular. Failure to do so will kill the truck.

Both the later model Dodge and Ford trucks will cost you between $12,000 to $14,000 when the fuel system goes. The pump, high lift pump, injectors and assemblies will set you back this much in a heartbeat.

This begs the huge question on buying used or new. We know new diesel trucks are nuts on the price. However, if you buy used and you DON'T know the service history - you better have plenty in reserve to deal with a failure.

Dodge has a real problem on the Cummins and came out with a SEVERE duty filter kit-translation - they don't make an adequate factory filter so the injection system gets wrecked and costs you...$12K to fix. They won't warranty fuel related issues. In fact, Dodge has a WIF track that stores how long you have driven with the WIF light on. THis is designed to avoid paying warranty claims where the owner is not taking care fo the vehicle.

Check out how serious they are about this:

NUMBER: 14-002-10GROUP: FuelDATE: February 11, 2010THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 14-003-09 REV. A, DATED OCTOBER 21,2009, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDE A NEW PART.SUBJECT:Heavy Duty Filtration - MOPAR Retrofit or Add On Parts AvailableMODELS:2003 - 2009 (D1/DH)

Ram Truck (2500/3500 Pick Up)2007 - 2009 (DC)
Ram Truck (3500 Cab Chassis)NOTE:


This bulletin applies to DI/DH/DR vehicles equipped with a 5.9L Cummins engine built from 2003 model year (sales codes ETH, ETC) and DI/DH/DC vehicles equipped with a 6.7L Cummins engine built from 2007 model year (sales code ETJ).DISCUSSION:Several fuel system add-on or retrofit parts are available to enhance the filtering capability for customers exposing their vehicles to extremely dirty conditions.Description of parts available for Cummins diesel equipped vehicles are listed below: ^


6.7L up-graded (5 & 10 micron filter-in-filter) fuel filter to retrofit earlier models (shell and element). ^ 6.7L Element only, fuel filter. ^ 5.9L & 6.7L Add-on or up-graded fuel tank vent hose kit with vent cap. ** Filter for fuel tank vent hose, (replaces vent cap) **. ^ 5.9L up-graded air filter. This filter is similar in design to the current 6.7L air filter.NOTE: Do not sell pin 05183410AA. Use 68061633AA shell and filter.NOTE: The maintenance intervals for the fuel filter has a 15,000 mile service requirement or more often as needed.

[69MyWay]

By the way - those of you with 2008 and up trucks.

Checked your Diesel Exhaust Fluid lately?

For those that have no idea what I'm talking about - check this out (just another reason in my book NOT to buy a diesel if at all possible)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31vRM1BORM

[70rs]

I suddenly want a diesel truck much less now.......

Thanks for the info. And for crushing my dreams........

[wmhjr]

Originally Posted by 70rs

I suddenly want a diesel truck much less now.......

Thanks for the info. And for crushing my dreams........

Don't let the previous scares mess with you. I can find a gazillion tech bulletins about pretty much any vehicle out there and have NEVER in ALL the owners I know, meet and see observed a "$12,000" rebuild on a diesel fuel system. I'm not saying there can't be problems but the statement to avoid a diesel if at all possible? Are you kidding me? Better tell all commercial trucking they're screwing up. Truth is - and it's fact - we've been slow to catch on but diesels are here to stay and for good reason. I'm not a fan of e urea based systems but..... And to pick on the cummins of all the diesel motors? The only medium duty engine option? Wow. I guess it just reinforces my avoidance of all the "analyst" opinions. Btw I do know of two people who had warranty fuel related issues that were completely covered.

Bottom line is this. I've got a number of diesel vehicles. Some are 50 yrs old. I've got a truck with 230k miles on it that runs like new, though it does have the typical cheap a$$ dodge interior. I do NOT run biodiesel, which can introduce all kinds of issues. And here's a question. There are a bunch of folks on this site who pull with diesels. Who hearer has found all kinds of water in their fuel, or has paid $12k for a fuel system rebuild. Buehler? Ferris?

[WSSix]

I really appreciate everyone's replies.

I currently live where it is flat but will be running to Colorado and back often. I even hope to return to living in Colorado. More times than not I'll be hauling a motorcycle in the bed up and down the grades not the car. I'll also be going on many of the trails in Colorado but nothing serious so I'll have 4wd. I really would like this truck to be the last vehicle I ever buy that's not a toy or project that's why I am getting a CC eventhough I have no family and am not popular enough to need four doors. In the future, I'm sure four doors will be utilized.

I'm getting the 2500 for towing and ruggedness. The issue is diesel or gas. I'm finding trucks in my price range ~$15k both diesel and gas loaded the exact same way. These are 03-early07 Silverados. Mileage is very different with the gassers around 80k to 100k and the diesel 150k and up. The long term value of the vehicle is a factor though a smaller one. I can afford a diesel and I love the pulling power. I'm just trying to be smart and logical about this decision and not let emotion control my purchase.

Thanks

[Vegas69]

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

[WSSix]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

That has to do with the new emissions stuff I believe. My last job we had two 14 passenger church type buses that we would run on his one route that had very few riders. Anyway, the buses lidled for long periods. SES light came on often. Finally the Ford dealership figured the problem out. The solution was to drive the buses more. So the drivers would come in 30 minutes early and drive on the loop around Athens to get everything hot and cleaned out. Problems went away.

This is why I am sticking to pre-emissions diesels so 07 Classic Silverados and older. No emissions BS to deal with.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

Good points Todd -- Diesels were not meant to be your daily commuter truck 5 miles one way to work... They want to do "work".

I've only had ONE issue with my Ford 6.0L (a computer that died a month ago - replaced in a couple hours and $1200) -- which everyone says is a POS.... and the reason for that, I BELIEVE, is because the 85K miles on it are almost all hiway and towing... and I have the Banks system which also includes the brake controller (like a jake brake). The truck gets used and used hard -- I give it no breaks (or brakes either!) going up or down the hills... and because of this - I think the exhaust gets burned clean - which keeps the injectors clean - and I have it serviced religiously! I don't want problems when I'm on the road... so I'm very pro-active with the services. I use AMSOIL synthetic diesel oil and I change it every 3000 miles -- and I use a Pure Power cleanable screen SS mesh filter.

BTW -- 85K --- and never changed the PADS on the brakes! Thanks to the Banks Brake! I rarely use the brakes... I'm telling ya - they have that down pat! Since I typically haul long distance - the miles add up without touching the brakes. If I was doing stop and go - I'd be on a the second set of pads and probably a rotor change. I've had the tranny fluid changed at least twice - with flushes - and ditto the radiator... flushed and new coolant. Belts have been changed and I had the radiator hoses changed at 75K.

I did have the entire front suspension rebuilt... again --- being pro active. I thought it was getting a little sloppy so just had them replace everything. It was 3 grand - but I want my steering up to snuff --- and I don't want to find out it's not, while I'm in a corner with a trailer pushing my butt around!

The only other thing I've learned is to periodically change the turbo pressure side hose (from the turbo to the intake)... it gets saturated with oil and will blow off just about the time you're really putting the boots to it... and putting that on while leaning over a hot motor SUCKS! So I now just change it out and use the good silicone turbo hose. I even discussed this personally with Gale Banks at this years Grand Nat show when I met him at the NHRA musem, and he told me they have seen the same issue... the hose just gets hot oil blown into it until it is "gone".

[wmhjr]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

Buddy of mine has a brand new dmax chevy. He's been told something similar from gm. It is emission related. But it wasn't that he had to drive 55mph, just that he had to drive it to get the EGTs up enough and then use it for an hour or so once every 2-3 weeks.

[street3285]

Originally Posted by 69MyWay

By the way - those of you with 2008 and up trucks.

Checked your Diesel Exhaust Fluid lately?

For those that have no idea what I'm talking about - check this out (just another reason in my book NOT to buy a diesel if at all possible)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31vRM1BORM

2008 don't have DEF, and I believe 2009 chevy's don't either. It started in 2010. But anyways, to answer the OP question, a gas will be fine. I agree with that, but if you want more power and more ease of towing, then a diesel is better. All depends on personal preference, how often towed, and budget. But now, it seems like you can get a used diesel for a decent price with moderate miles.