diesel or gas - Page 6 - Lateral-g Forums

69MyWay · #51 07-13-2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Sorry. Can't just trust you on this. For every example you bring up where somebody is having a problem there are thousands of trucks out there running hundreds of thousands of miles. Let me be more clear.

No worries - please understand I am not condemning all diesel trucks - nor suggesting that you will all have problems.

Please see what I am saying - and for those that don't take my word on the damages I have attached some documents to prove how costly this is.

My suggestion to anybody that is considering one of these trucks (Diesel) is to make sure you have on hand plenty of extra cash IF - or WHEN the fuel sytsem dies. Warranty does not cover this - and few insurance companies consider this a covered loss.

Folks shoping between Diesel and Gas need to know the facts to make up their mind.

The first bill I am attaching is from a 2008 Ram - this guy got off easy at $5,600

The second is part of a series (2009 Ram) - it started out around $5 and grew to $12K. I've included the final bill (personal info removed) to show how quickly this adds up.

wmhjr · #52 07-13-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69MyWay

No worries - please understand I am not condemning all diesel trucks - nor suggesting that you will all have problems.

Please see what I am saying - and for those that don't take my word on the damages I have attached some documents to prove how costly this is.

My suggestion to anybody that is considering one of these trucks (Diesel) is to make sure you have on hand plenty of extra cash IF - or WHEN the fuel sytsem dies. Warranty does not cover this - and few insurance companies consider this a covered loss.

Folks shoping between Diesel and Gas need to know the facts to

The second is part of a series (2009 Ram) - it started out around $5 and grew to $12K. I've included the final bill (personal info removed) to show how quickly this adds up.

My last word on this is that people should also understand that your "facts" are not necessarily accurate or in context. I simply dispute your position and believe you are biased.

As an example, take a look at the attachments you provided. You'll see "contamination" clearly written, along with the inclusion of not only injectors and pump, but also a new FUEL TANK. Please explain exactly how a poor filtration system not only caused pump and injector failure but also the replacement of the tank? Ain't gonna happen. This is clearly a work order involving far more than what you allege, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised that the owner may have been trying to use biodiesel, maybe even home brewed. Don't know, but I DO know it was not just injector or pump failure.

Anyway, I won't hide behind the veil of some undisclosed "research" job in assuming costs or claims. A small handful of (questionable) receipts has a long way to go before you should be making claims of "when" fuel system failures will happen and why. Jmho.

**Stuart Adams** · #53 07-13-2011, 03:56 PM

I really think you have to own both to truly understand the differences. If you haven't it just not the same. Having owned both, I prefer diesel, but everybody has their own choices and that's great. The upside of tuning the diesel is a cool feature, even though mine is stock, a lot of friends get great mileage and their trucks are fast as heck.

nvmyss · #54 07-13-2011, 04:13 PM

Having owned both a 2001 HD Crew with the 6.0 tuner, cold air and headers.
And a 06 5.9 Dodge Cummins that I've changed from stock to mild modded., here are my 2 cents.

I've towed with both and same weighs and distances. The Diesel is hands down my choice, I will never go back to a gas truck. (unless it's a "fun truck" --one that is not used as a truck. A truck is for hauling stuff and treating it rough)I have towed 24' enclosed trailers load with a few thousand lbs. and open trailers with little weight.

The torque of the diesel will shine compared to the gas in a few areas. The ones that come to mind are mileage, hills (both up and down) and price to increase power.

Each brand of diesel has its draw backs.
Maintenance and fixing the "weak link" will cost more than a gas initially but if you’re going to own for a long time it is worth it.

The 6.0 I got 12mpg no matter what, hills knocked speed and mpg down when hauling the enclosed. The open trailer was better but hills still sucked with weight.

The diesel I can keep going @ 75mph and still pull 18mpg on hills, flat land I and go back over 20, this is with a loaded enclosed trailer.

69MyWay · #55 07-13-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmhjr

My last word on this is that people should also understand that your "facts" are not necessarily accurate or in context. I simply dispute your position and believe you are biased.

As an example, take a look at the attachments you provided. You'll see "contamination" clearly written, along with the inclusion of not only injectors and pump, but also a new FUEL TANK. Please explain exactly how a poor filtration system not only caused pump and injector failure but also the replacement of the tank? Ain't gonna happen. This is clearly a work order involving far more than what you allege, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised that the owner may have been trying to use biodiesel, maybe even home brewed. Don't know, but I DO know it was not just injector or pump failure.

Anyway, I won't hide behind the veil of some undisclosed "research" job in assuming costs or claims. A small handful of (questionable) receipts has a long way to go before you should be making claims of "when" fuel system failures will happen and why. Jmho.

Like I said - no worries - I have no idea why this has become so personal to you,- I promise I'm not taking a swipe at your pride in ownership of your truck, in fact I'm very happy to hear you have had such great success from your vehicle as well as others on here that are proud of their diesel trucks - but since it is your last word on the subject I humbly submit mine as well.

Yes, what you see is correct. The proper procedure per most manufacturers once there is a fuel system failure is to drop and clean the tank, flush the lines, replace all the filters - and then service all the other parts that were exposed. Sometimes this includes a tank replacement. This is for several reasons. One - the water has to be removed 100%. Also, you have a return line to your tank. The higher pressure pump will often self destruct when exposed to water. When that happens it will send shards of metal shavings back to the tank. I know you wouldn't have thought that on initial impression - but it does. Diesel fuel is dirty and most people that don't actually haul and use these like they should often neglect the fuel system and allow excess amounts of water to collect. It rots them out from the inside and devours the injectors and pump once it pushes past the WIF system. People getting into these trucks need to know how to take care of them. Being careless in where you buy your fuel, how you service your WIF system, and any attempt to use alternative fuels WILL result in a high repair bill. We looked at a F350 box truck that was a my2008 sold in 2011 as a new vehicle as it was a hold back on a dealer lot. It only had about 1,200 miles on it. It made it off the lot and went just a few more miles and fell on its face. $12,000 later Ford denied the claim and we found out that the fuel system once opened looked like it had been on the bottom of the ocean for two years - all the way to the injectors. Typical diesel fuel failure issue from sitting - BIG impact on the truck. One of the big problems Dodge had is the WIF sensor was getting clogged and NOT turning the warning lamp on. They had to eat a bunch of these claims under warranty until they got that fixed.

I can submit to you repair bills like you see above all day long. I am not hiding behind any sort of undisclosed research job. I will be happy to send a PM to anybody that questions my credentials. There are a handful of folks on this board that know me personally and know who it is I work for and what I do. I will tell you that the request topic of this thread is very timely to me since I have recently looked at several hundred of these type of failures in an effort to quantify and track them for my employer. We also have obtained some specimens and are in the process of doing destructive testing on them to try to get our arms around the nature of this problem.

This diesel issue is not going to rise to the point of a NHTSA recall from what I can see, but it is on the radar screen because there appears to be a series of both design defects with the vehicle, poor quality fuel issues, and finally owner/maintenance issues that are having an impact on everybody's wallet.

So bottom line - I could care less what somebody buys. I however am happy to share what I'm discovering at this point over the last couple of years on the new generation diesel engines and how this impacts the average consumer.

**GregWeld** · #56 07-13-2011, 07:56 PM

Having owned and operated large diesel boats -- with 1000 gallon (not a typo - One thousand gallon) fuel tanks... everything he is saying about dirty fuel is absolutely the truth.

When you have that much diesel "stored" --- and it has water in it (all diesel does) --- you can get all manor of microbial growth... that will wreck havoc on the fuel system filters and anything else it touches. It's easier to deal with on boats where we can run large filters and be able to switch to a back up filter if necessary. These RACOR filters spin the fuel to try to separate the gunk - and they have clear glass so you can SEE your fuel. That would be impossible on a pick up... with rocks etc. In the boat they're well protected in the engine room.

There are businesses that do nothing but clean fuel tanks and filter your fuel etc.

So I can see a truck that isn't getting used much - or buys fuel from a depot that doesn't pump much - getting seriously contaminated. And that spells Ex$pen$ive repairs.