What do you do when your product is knocked off?

[Sparks67]

Originally Posted by XLexusTech

With all do respect.. Mr or Mrs Fesler whichever posted the above it seems to me that you saying your product is not the same because a boss is thicker or the strut is on a Diff angle or that you used a heim joint over a dog bone.

Are you saying its OK to copy a product make some simple changes and that is OK?

Or are you saying you engineered a product very much like the originator by happenstance and as evidence note the angle difference on the strut and the joint Difference?

ALSO for what do you attribute your companies ability to release so many products? Do you outsource the R&D or what because I can see how you could make so many products without a head start.

Actually, a co-worker friend of mine is a USAF scientist and has several patents. Even patents can be copied as long as there is changes in the design. Although, he gets upset when a company does an exact copy of his design. Then he has to go to court over it. Does Fesler or Ringbrothers have patents on their hinges? No! Are they exact copies? No, they are similar but not exact copies of each other. I bought a set of Ringbrother's hinges, but I wish that they opened farther like the Fesler design. I sent an email in the past to Ringbrother's requesting that change to be made in the airframe design, they refused to do it. So if Ringbrothers want to make a better hinge, then just change the design and make it more functional. Competition is good for the consumer.

Jeff

[ccracin]

I really think this is one of those threads that really is not going to help or solve anything. No matter what anyone says, there are still going to be people that will believe what they want. Personally, I don't think this thread looks good for either vendor. We have seen these discussions before. Should Chevrolet be upset that someone is making a hinge other than theirs? The geometry is close but not exact between the billet hinges and the stockers. Both of these vendors are very good and very knowledgeable. Each have their own specific strengths. I think the consumer needs to research both products and companies and choose what fits. As an aside, I have not purchased from either vendor. If either one had a part I needed, I don't think I would hesitate to buy from either. Let me expand more. As some of you may know, we are building a truck. I love the look of the billet hinges. For quite some time, no one made a billet hinge for our truck. I am an Engineer and decided to design my own. I have one modeled in Solidworks. I just have not gotten to the point of building it because we are not ready for it. Now, a couple companies offer it. If I were to make mine now and try to market it, would I be accused of copying? At this point, I will probably purchase one that is on the market now. It simply does not make financial sense for me to follow through with my design. It would cost me far more than just buying them. Let's take it a bit further. If when I buy a set and by chance decide I am not happy with the quality or operation, am I precluded from redesigning them and trying to bring a superior product to market just because mine would look similar to another? I think you will find there are a huge number of companies that have been born and thrive based on the sole principle of trying bring their own superior version of something that already exists to market. The best example I can come up with is the wheel industry. If the first billet wheel was the only one allowed, we would all be pretty unhappy.

In the end, I think the Ring Brothers are first class and highly talented. I don't think you guys should be worried or upset. If you feel you were copied, be flattered and continue to raise the bar. Also, Fesler has introduced many more products to the market that allow all of us to have choices when it comes to bring our visions to life. Parts that RB do not offer. We should all do our own research an decide based on our own wants and needs who we purchase from. I think that is what a free market is all about. I encourage all the vendors to keep pushing the envelope of design and performance so that we don't end up with cars that all look the same!

[XLexusTech]

Originally Posted by Sparks67

Actually, a co-worker friend of mine is a USAF scientist and has several patents. Even patents can be copied as long as there is changes in the design. Although, he gets upset when a company does an exact copy of his design. Then he has to go to court over it. Does Fesler or Ringbrothers have patents on their hinges? No! Are they exact copies? No, they are similar but not exact copies of each other. I bought a set of Ringbrother's hinges, but I wish that they opened farther like the Fesler design. I sent an email in the past to Ringbrother's requesting that change to be made in the airframe design, they refused to do it. So if Ringbrothers want to make a better hinge, then just change the design and make it more functional. Competition is good for the consumer.

Jeff

I get it and agree with everything you said... I just want to know if Fesler created these from scratch or by modifying the existing design...

[elitecustombody]

Originally Posted by Sparks67

Actually, a co-worker friend of mine is a USAF scientist and has several patents. Even patents can be copied as long as there is changes in the design. Although, he gets upset when a company does an exact copy of his design. Then he has to go to court over it. Does Fesler or Ringbrothers have patents on their hinges? No! Are they exact copies? No, they are similar but not exact copies of each other. I bought a set of Ringbrother's hinges, but I wish that they opened farther like the Fesler design. I sent an email in the past to Ringbrother's requesting that change to be made in the airframe design, they refused to do it. So if Ringbrothers want to make a better hinge, then just change the design and make it more functional. Competition is good for the consumer.

Jeff

I agree.I guess Fesler just needs to machine round holes instead of airframe to keep RB nutswingers shut.

People need to realize there is only so much you can do to make a bolt-on custom hinge that replaces stock hinge.

[elitecustombody]

Originally Posted by ccracin

I really think this is one of those threads that really is not going to help or solve anything. No matter what anyone says, there are still going to be people that will believe what they want. Personally, I don't think this thread looks good for either vendor. We have seen these discussions before. Should Chevrolet be upset that someone is making a hinge other than theirs? The geometry is close but not exact between the billet hinges and the stockers. Both of these vendors are very good and very knowledgeable. Each have their own specific strengths. I think the consumer needs to research both products and companies and choose what fits. As an aside, I have not purchased from either vendor. If either one had a part I needed, I don't think I would hesitate to buy from either. Let me expand more. As some of you may know, we are building a truck. I love the look of the billet hinges. For quite some time, no one made a billet hinge for our truck. I am an Engineer and decided to design my own. I have one modeled in Solidworks. I just have not gotten to the point of building it because we are not ready for it. Now, a couple companies offer it. If I were to make mine now and try to market it, would I be accused of copying? At this point, I will probably purchase one that is on the market now. It simply does not make financial sense for me to follow through with my design. It would cost me far more than just buying them. Let's take it a bit further. If when I buy a set and by chance decide I am not happy with the quality or operation, am I precluded from redesigning them and trying to bring a superior product to market just because mine would look similar to another? I think you will find there are a huge number of companies that have been born and thrive based on the sole principle of trying bring their own superior version of something that already exists to market. The best example I can come up with is the wheel industry. If the first billet wheel was the only one allowed, we would all be pretty unhappy.

In the end, I think the Ring Brothers are first class and highly talented. I don't think you guys should be worried or upset. If you feel you were copied, be flattered and continue to raise the bar. Also, Fesler has introduced many more products to the market that allow all of us to have choices when it comes to bring our visions to life. Parts that RB do not offer. We should all do our own research an decide based on our own wants and needs who we purchase from. I think that is what a free market is all about. I encourage all the vendors to keep pushing the envelope of design and performance so that we don't end up with cars that all look the same!

Chad, you nailed it

[4mm]

Originally Posted by Sparks67

Actually, a co-worker friend of mine is a USAF scientist and has several patents. Even patents can be copied as long as there is changes in the design. Although, he gets upset when a company does an exact copy of his design. Then he has to go to court over it. Does Fesler or Ringbrothers have patents on their hinges? No! Are they exact copies? No, they are similar but not exact copies of each other. I bought a set of Ringbrother's hinges, but I wish that they opened farther like the Fesler design. I sent an email in the past to Ringbrother's requesting that change to be made in the airframe design, they refused to do it. So if Ringbrothers want to make a better hinge, then just change the design and make it more functional. Competition is good for the consumer.

Jeff

Originally Posted by ccracin

I really think this is one of those threads that really is not going to help or solve anything. No matter what anyone says, there are still going to be people that will believe what they want. Personally, I don't think this thread looks good for either vendor. We have seen these discussions before. Should Chevrolet be upset that someone is making a hinge other than theirs? The geometry is close but not exact between the billet hinges and the stockers. Both of these vendors are very good and very knowledgeable. Each have their own specific strengths. I think the consumer needs to research both products and companies and choose what fits. As an aside, I have not purchased from either vendor. If either one had a part I needed, I don't think I would hesitate to buy from either. Let me expand more. As some of you may know, we are building a truck. I love the look of the billet hinges. For quite some time, no one made a billet hinge for our truck. I am an Engineer and decided to design my own. I have one modeled in Solidworks. I just have not gotten to the point of building it because we are not ready for it. Now, a couple companies offer it. If I were to make mine now and try to market it, would I be accused of copying? At this point, I will probably purchase one that is on the market now. It simply does not make financial sense for me to follow through with my design. It would cost me far more than just buying them. Let's take it a bit further. If when I buy a set and by chance decide I am not happy with the quality or operation, am I precluded from redesigning them and trying to bring a superior product to market just because mine would look similar to another? I think you will find there are a huge number of companies that have been born and thrive based on the sole principle of trying bring their own superior version of something that already exists to market. The best example I can come up with is the wheel industry. If the first billet wheel was the only one allowed, we would all be pretty unhappy.

In the end, I think the Ring Brothers are first class and highly talented. I don't think you guys should be worried or upset. If you feel you were copied, be flattered and continue to raise the bar. Also, Fesler has introduced many more products to the market that allow all of us to have choices when it comes to bring our visions to life. Parts that RB do not offer. We should all do our own research an decide based on our own wants and needs who we purchase from. I think that is what a free market is all about. I encourage all the vendors to keep pushing the envelope of design and performance so that we don't end up with cars that all look the same!

Originally Posted by elitecustombody

I agree.I guess Fesler just needs to machine round holes instead of airframe to keep RB nutswingers shut.

People need to realize there is only so much you can do to make a bolt-on custom hinge that replaces stock hinge.

I completely agree with all of the above.

[mexMan]

Yeah, people usually agrees on anything they know they can't lose with.

Anyway, I think I might be losing something, and maybe all of us are too, because I saw the designs, and they're not that similar (they're really different) but if the brothers are doing this is for a reason, so that's why I think we're missing something around here. They can't be mistaken, I mean, has Chris showed up in here yet? He hasn't said a thing about this (not that I'm calling him guilty, I don't want to get misunderstood here) but I'm still thinking that we're missing something important, anyway, let's Jim and Mike Ring solve this with Chris @ Fesler, they're the big boys around here.

And a 19 y/o is going to tell you this, you all (yes you the mature people, the grown ups) look like a bunch of 8 year olds.

[clill]

The Ring Brother's hinges open further than stock now as I compared Stielows with my stock ones on Jackass. I just need to get a set. Ring Brother's are the absolute guys that thought of and built them first on a car they had at SEMA. I t was their idea. If you want to do the right thing you will buy from the guys that came up with it first. It isn't like they gouge...They build nice stuff. As I recall Fesler showed a Camaro tail light a couple years ago that was a exact copy of a tailt light that Lillard MFG wrote the programming for and built for Marquez. It was exact right down to the random fixture holes on the back side.

[Shmoov69]

Originally Posted by mexMan

And a 19 y/o is going to tell you this, you all (yes you the mature people, the grown ups) look like a bunch of 8 year olds.

LoL!!! Quote of the day!!

RB came up with them it appears, Fessler made them available to other cars that were not of intrest to RB. What about Holley and Demon? Is this the same thing? Holley came up with the design and all waaaay before Demon came and made some improvements. That's just business IMO, the "innovators" will continue to innovate and the "others" will continue to capatilize and improve what was already thought up by others.
Right or wrong?? I dunno, but it is the way it is.



Now an EXACT copy......that is a totally different issue altogether!

[Streetking]

Originally Posted by clill

The Ring Brother's hinges open further than stock now as I compared Stielows with my stock ones on Jackass. I just need to get a set. Ring Brother's are the absolute guys that thought of and built them first on a car they had at SEMA. I t was their idea. If you want to do the right thing you will buy from the guys that came up with it first. It isn't like they gouge...They build nice stuff. As I recall Fesler showed a Camaro tail light a couple years ago that was a exact copy of a tailt light that Lillard MFG wrote the programming for and built for Marquez. It was exact right down to the random fixture holes on the back side.

Exactly. Just keep building the best products you can, people that know quailty will always keep coming back to you.

SW