Somebody FREAKIN shoot me!!!!

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

I can see that. Why would anyone respect a president who, for example, wants to see middle class Americans given a shot at decent wages and living conditions, who believes in education and passing on to our children a planet that's still viable, who respects the fundamental rights of all Americans to marry, serve in the armed forces and be treated with respect, and who thinks that it's not moral to balance the budget on the backs of the elderly through cuts to medicare and social security?

Yes, so much more reflective of American values to gut the safety net (and the promises made over the last 50 years) so we can give tax breaks to the obscenely wealthy and allow capitalists to flourish at the expense of both the country and its citizens.

I'm definitely middle class and don't see any action that will help middle class America. I see a lot of smoke being blown up naïve orifices. Decent wages and living conditions start with jobs. Jobs start with embracing small businesses with incentive programs to create jobs.

I see middle-American's getting back-doored with hidden taxes in the form a rate increases from the over-staffed over-paid bureaucracies. Small businesses that aren't unionized will continue to be handicapped with unrealistic sub-contractor compliance regulations. Health care costs for small business and individuals packaged with poor service quality will continue to escalate.

Our children are 11 & 14 and while our schools are better than average, they don't generate a good education. They teach mediocrity, entitlement, and poor fundamental manners (behavior/attire/responsibility/etc.)

They learn that respect is not earned it's an entitlement. They learn that an 8 month 32 hour 5 day work week is too much. They learn how to supplement holiday leave with fictional days off. They learn that Mac is superior to the PC platform. They learn how to solicit for donations. They learn that obese is the norm. They lean that pizza, nacho's, and soda are good nutrition. The learn that art and music are more important than shop and home economics. They learn that being reprimanded for unacceptable behavior is not that bad. They learn that trying to achieve at higher levels than others is frowned upon. They learn that even if you don't win you still get a trophy and accolades. They learn the American Flag and National Anthem are offensive to others.

They also learn at lunch every day that they are of an ethnicity that isn't worthy of accolades and special accommodations.......and they don't have the right to find it offensive.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Sieg

I'm definitely middle class and don't see any action that will help middle class America. I see a lot of smoke being blown up naïve orifices. Decent wages and living conditions start with jobs. Jobs start with embracing small businesses with incentive programs to create jobs.

I see middle-American's getting back-doored with hidden taxes in the form a rate increases from the over-staffed over-paid bureaucracies. Small businesses that aren't unionized will continue to be handicapped with unrealistic sub-contractor compliance regulations. Health care costs for small business and individuals packaged with poor service quality will continue to escalate.

Our children are 11 & 14 and while our schools are better than average, they don't generate a good education. They teach mediocrity, entitlement, and poor fundamental manners (behavior/attire/responsibility/etc.)

They learn that respect is not earned it's an entitlement. They learn that an 8 month 32 hour 5 day work week is too much. They learn how to supplement holiday leave with fictional days off. They learn that Mac is superior to the PC platform. They learn how to solicit for donations. They learn that obese is the norm. They lean that pizza, nacho's, and soda are good nutrition. The learn that art and music are more important than shop and home economics. They learn that being reprimanded for unacceptable behavior is not that bad. They learn that trying to achieve at higher levels than others is frowned upon. They learn that even if you don't win you still get a trophy and accolades. They learn the American Flag and National Anthem are offensive to others.

They also learn at lunch every day that they are of an ethnicity that isn't worthy of accolades and special accommodations.......and they don't have the right to find it offensive.

I'M GIVING THIS POST A STANDING OVATION!


Why have we become the SILENT MAJORITY???

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I'M GIVING THIS POST A STANDING OVATION!


Why have we become the SILENT MAJORITY???

Because our kids educators instill it in them from grade school on. But only in the larger cities, rural farming communities still have core values harmonious with those of our founding fathers.

Reality is we are not the majority any more.

[Shmoov69]

Nail..... Head..... You HIT it!!!
Don't forget how immensely important sports is as well!!

Originally Posted by Sieg

I'm definitely middle class and don't see any action that will help middle class America. I see a lot of smoke being blown up naïve orifices. Decent wages and living conditions start with jobs. Jobs start with embracing small businesses with incentive programs to create jobs.

I see middle-American's getting back-doored with hidden taxes in the form a rate increases from the over-staffed over-paid bureaucracies. Small businesses that aren't unionized will continue to be handicapped with unrealistic sub-contractor compliance regulations. Health care costs for small business and individuals packaged with poor service quality will continue to escalate.

Our children are 11 & 14 and while our schools are better than average, they don't generate a good education. They teach mediocrity, entitlement, and poor fundamental manners (behavior/attire/responsibility/etc.)

They learn that respect is not earned it's an entitlement. They learn that an 8 month 32 hour 5 day work week is too much. They learn how to supplement holiday leave with fictional days off. They learn that Mac is superior to the PC platform. They learn how to solicit for donations. They learn that obese is the norm. They lean that pizza, nacho's, and soda are good nutrition. The learn that art and music are more important than shop and home economics. They learn that being reprimanded for unacceptable behavior is not that bad. They learn that trying to achieve at higher levels than others is frowned upon. They learn that even if you don't win you still get a trophy and accolades. They learn the American Flag and National Anthem are offensive to others.

They also learn at lunch every day that they are of an ethnicity that isn't worthy of accolades and special accommodations.......and they don't have the right to find it offensive.

[Mkelcy]

Maybe we just narrow the discussion a bit and take it point by point: Obama wants to continue the Bush tax cuts for everyone making less that $250,000/year. Does anyone here object to that?

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

Maybe we just narrow the discussion a bit and take it point by point: Obama wants to continue the Bush tax cuts for everyone making less that $250,000/year. Does anyone here object to that?

NOPE! Not as long as it comes with SPENDING CUTS. And that's the bargaining chip. Higher taxes are FINE IF they come with entitlement cuts.

Obviously that's where the two idiot sides need to get their shiat together.

As stated earlier -- NOT entitlement cuts that hurt the people that need them.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

NOPE! Not as long as it comes with SPENDING CUTS. And that's the bargaining chip. Higher taxes are FINE IF they come with entitlement cuts.

Obviously that's where the two idiot sides need to get their shiat together.

As stated earlier -- NOT entitlement cuts that hurt the people the need them.

REAL spending cuts. Not Washingtons "spending cuts". Cuts to what you're actually spending today, not cuts to future growth that still mean we're spending more tomorrow than today, we just don't increase it as much.

Mike, I'm for giving your side everything they want that's constitutional. Let's find out if the Dems/Obamas vision to fix the economy will work. Best case, it works which benefits everyone and we all learn something. Worst case, the economy crashes, and again we learn something. Just make sure that everyone knows who's plan is being followed so there's no confusion or blame put on the other side if it doesn't work as planned.

[Mkelcy]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

NOPE! Not as long as it comes with SPENDING CUTS. And that's the bargaining chip. Higher taxes are FINE IF they come with entitlement cuts.

Obviously that's where the two idiot sides need to get their shiat together.

As stated earlier -- NOT entitlement cuts that hurt the people the need them.

I'm not sure I understand why you want to go after "entitlements" rather than, say, bullet trains or military spending.

I'm going to retire in a few years, with some savings both after tax and tax deferred. My savings are probably enough that I might be hit by your desire for a need test on benefits that I will have paid for for over 50 years. Why is that the best way to reduce the debt?

Moreover, I don't see anything in the Republican plans that looks like a needs test, all I see is across the board cuts. Again, why is that the best way to reduce the deficit, particularly while resisting any change to the top tax rates?

Tax savings for the 1% aren't going to be immediately recirculated in the economy because the 1% simply don't need that money day-to-day; tax savings for the 99%, on the other hand, are likely going to be spent and help the economy.

I agree there's a lot of government waste but most of what people are talking about here (Solyndra, Obama phones, Medicare disability payments) is down in the budgetary noise. If you want to reduce the deficit, increase taxes, reduce military spending and invest in this country (decent education, infrastructure and, yes, alternative energy), so we can increase GDP and, as a result, the taxable base.

[Garage Dog 65]

‘Invest’ in 'decent' Education ???

I don’t see how continuing to pour more and more money into the education system will in any way fix the actual problem(s). Check around and see how much of every tax dollar heads to education from your county, state and national taxes – and everyone still says our education system is terrible. I don’t see how that’s possible unless the money isn’t spent correctly – and a lot isn’t.

How has the curriculum for K-12 changed that much over the years? Science and technology yes – but the basics haven’t changed that much - Reading/Writing, Math, Chemistry, Physics, History…

And now we’re talking about how every kid has the right to a college education – read that as free by the way… Not sure who gets to pay for that.

Root Cause: These days we refuse to look at the actual causes of problems and seek to fix those because everyone is so entrenched in their ‘sides’ positions and theology and fight to maintain ‘their’ ground. There is no low hanging fruit anymore, very few easy decisions. There are big, difficult decisions that need to be made and put into effect – but the country is so divided I really don’t see much progress being made in any direction.

[Bucketlist2012]

I can agree with all the last few posts to a degree...Jody I think that trying something and seeing where it goes is good but being that the media are liars we will never know who to blame if things don't work..No one wants to take the blame.they want the credit if it goes right, and they shift the blame if it goes wrong..

I can agree with alternative energy to a point...It is a great addition to the grid...It is not the answer to energy problems..I spent 10 years in Solar...

And lastly it is always my way or the highway when it comes to politicians ...In taxes, spending, alternative energy, ect...

A moderate approach that is best for the nation would be the answer, but both sides believe it is my way or else...Spending cuts and taxes would be a good choice ,it is just finding the mix.

Adding alternative energy to the grid would be great, but don't try to paint Oil as evil and that it needs to be replaced.. It is here to stay..Adding nat gas to the trucking industry and adding green energy to the grid would be a start.

Same with any policy.