Somebody FREAKIN shoot me!!!!

[Flash68]

Ya'all's comments on our sh!tty education system is exactly why I paid mucho extra to move to a city where K-12 are pretty much tops in the state and crime is near zero.

Small businesses are the job creators of this country yet Obamacare is gonna excessively tax these small businesses (like mine) so actually LESS net jobs will be created as costs will run higher and companies are already strategizing on how to minimize the damage of this flawed and ridiculous socialistic law.

Like Greg said --- FREE healthcare for all is not free..... job creators will pay.... and less net jobs will be created.

What a joke.

[Mkelcy]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Ya'all's comments on our sh!tty education system is exactly why I paid mucho extra to move to a city where K-12 are pretty much tops in the state and crime is near zero.

Small businesses are the job creators of this country yet Obamacare is gonna excessively tax these small businesses (like mine) so actually LESS net jobs will be created as costs will run higher and companies are already strategizing on how to minimize the damage of this flawed and ridiculous socialistic law.

Like Greg said --- FREE healthcare for all is not free..... job creators will pay.... and less net jobs will be created.

What a joke.

I'm curious. Who do you think pays for the "uninsured" now, who show up at hospital ER's and must be treated?

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

I'm curious. Who do you think pays for the "uninsured" now, who show up at hospital ER's and must be treated?

We do, of course. And I think it's only going to get worse. Who woulda thought America's healthcare system (the worst in the developed world as far as efficiency and cost) could actually decline....

[Mkelcy]

Originally Posted by Flash68

We do, of course. And I think it's only going to get worse. Who would thought America's health care system (the worst in the developed world as far as efficiency and cost) could actually decline....

There's an inverse correlation between the extent of the coverage and the cost per patient. Preventive care actually works, and if we provided it to those who are uninsured and who must must use ER services, the overall cost would decline.

[Vegas69]

I'll take this medical thing another direction. Doctors that attempt to mask the problem with a prescription pad instead of find the solution. I've known multiple people that have been turned into near zombies by a prescription pad.

The incentives drug companies offer doctors need to go away.

One of my goals this year was to find a fine doctor that listened and gave a ****. I was successful but it wasn't easy especially with my current insurance which is an HMO. Her practice is fairly new and that was the only way in the door.

Finding quality healthcare is extremely difficult but it's available if you are persistent enough and do your homework.
--
In regards to education. Greg is right, they continually pile on more and more and more onto these teachers every year with more kids and the same amount of time. Kelli has her 20 and she get's 2 autistic kids every morning to try to get into the mix. They moved a kid into her class that misbehaves and has been suspended multiple times as the other teacher couldn't handle him. Remember, this is 3rd grade! They need to crack down on the damn parents and kids more effectively. This cancer is why the smart kids are getting inferior educations as they consume to much of the teachers time and energy.

She puts in the hours too, let me tell you. She leaves at 7 and comes home at 5most days. Many nights and weekend time are spent grading papers, doing lesson plans, or buying supplies for the kids that the school doesn't provide. She has a bachelors, masters, +32, plus countless other formal training and pulls down 59k a year. I will say that she's more dedicated and driven than most as education is her passion but far from overpaid even with 3 months off.

[Fluid Power]

Originally Posted by ironworks

Both thoughts seem totally logical.

But to think somebody with minimal cash is going to outspend some guy with money is illogical.

Just think of the people the 1%ers in my shop employ, well my 8 employees, the welding supply and repair store, the garbage man, my landlord, power company, all my parts suppliers, the drivers who deliver parts,the scrap metal guys who pick up the scrap, my laser cutter and machinists, plus all garderers who work for everyone listed above, and the painters.

You could carry that even further to the people we spend our profits from the 1%ers on, race car parts for my hobby stock, all the way down to the rawhide bones my widest dog consumes at a ridiculous pace. Somebody had to make that thing for the dog to chew. To the guy building my swimming pool to the guy I buy my gasoline from.

Agreed. I own my own business. I have 5 employees and own my building with a tenant. I pay the yard guy, the landscaper in the spring and fall, the trash guy, the propane company, etc. etc. I am doing a nice project for PPG right now, the CEO of PPG is a 1%er, and PPG is adding a monster production line at a local finishing plant. The number of work (albeit temp) is huge. This construction guys, the electricians, the mechanical contractors, Me! all allows us to make money and put it back into the local economy. Corporations ARE job creators. As are the 1%ers. Another case in point: My best friend is SUPER wealthy. Huge house in a super affluent neighbor hood, a house in Naples, FLA on the water and a gentleman's farm here in town. The money is old family money. He owns a steel erection business and has grown the thing like mad, adding people and buying equipment like crazy. He could have sat around and sucked the tit of family wealth, but this guy will out work darn near anyone. And by work I mean drive equipment and walk the iron. He looks like he doesn't have 2 nickels to rub together. He might be the exception, but all of his neighbors are mostly guys just like himself, concrete company owners, commercial construction guys etc...

Darren

[Sieg]

Todd - The compensation system for our schools is interesting as is the expectations placed on the teachers. Our son is TAG and boarder-line Asperger's. The schools here receive no additional funding to accommodate above average IQ students yet state law says they have to make special accommodation. Before confirmation they tested him 2 or 3 times and reported back that he is just below TAG level. We took him to an independent learning center where a long-time friend works for testing and he was full-blown TAG, not even a question.

Our schools receive numerous types of special state and federal funding for below average students yet there is none for above average. I've been told many education systems in EU countries capitalize on above average students with special programs and schools. Our local public system appears to rely on deflection tactics. I would guess it isn't much better across the country.

To compound the education issues with our son in the 4th grade his pediatrician over a 4 week period prescribe him with 3 courses of heavy antibiotics for ear and throat infections which I'm 90+ percent sure lead to his Crone's disease. I have numerous friends who are docs or in the medical field and the body language gets interesting when I mention the medically induced Crone's theory.
FWIW - That doctor was in favor of socialized medical program.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by ironworks

Both thoughts seem totally logical.

But to think somebody with minimal cash is going to outspend some guy with money is illogical.

Just think of the people the 1%ers in my shop employ, well my 8 employees, the welding supply and repair store, the garbage man, my landlord, power company, all my parts suppliers, the drivers who deliver parts,the scrap metal guys who pick up the scrap, my laser cutter and machinists, plus all garderers who work for everyone listed above, and the painters.

You could carry that even further to the people we spend our profits from the 1%ers on, race car parts for my hobby stock, all the way down to the rawhide bones my widest dog consumes at a ridiculous pace. Somebody had to make that thing for the dog to chew. To the guy building my swimming pool to the guy I buy my gasoline from.

This is why I said the Mkelcy doesn't understand who really creates jobs - which in turn creates taxes...

Obviously the 1% is not the driving force for the economy - it's probably more like the top 30%.... The point is - it's not the bottom 50%. My MONTHLY budget is about what most GROSS per year. And it employs an awful lot of people. That's not bragging - it's just a fact. So think about that -- I'm equal to about 12 people in spending. The difference is I'm not just buying basic services and groceries etc.

I just don't think some folks realize where their income comes from. And when I hear this constant attack on "wealth" I know that it's from someone that has no understanding of an economy.

BTW --- YOUR GARDNER DID NOT CREATE THE JOB --- The guy that employs your gardner did. A gardner with no employer doesn't create anything.

What I dislike the MOST about the current POTUS is his constant class warfare attitude. He is SUPPOSED to be the POT UNITED States... not the "we against them" people.

I would also invite folks to actually look up who pays the "lions share" of all the taxes collected by the IRS. It might surprise those that think the top earners aren't doing their share. I beg to differ. But that's not really an argument. All the polls that I've read have said that the 1% don't mind paying higher taxes. What they do care about is the growth of the US budget and what's behind that growth. And that they want to see more constraint.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Kelli has her 20 and she get's 2 autistic kids every morning to try to get into the mix.

I forgot Kelli is a teacher!


Do you make her dress up and stuff when...... <never mind>


My guess is that most people would quit after about one week of trying to be a teacher. I was a Boy Scout troop leader.... and trying to get, and maintain, the attention of 8 or 9 little boys was like herding cats. Just to get them settled enough to even START to do a project tried my patience!

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

There's an inverse correlation between the extent of the coverage and the cost per patient. Preventive care actually works, and if we provided it to those who are uninsured and who must must use ER services, the overall cost would decline.

Finally something we can agree on.


Obamacare didn't address the COSTS of healthcare.... if it had - I'd have been all for it. Instead he just created an entire new government bureaucracy.