Coil over VS 5" sping an external shock?

[badmatt]

I know where your coming from like the chicayne kit id like to try and run that BUT I would have to cut up most of my upper cross shaft mount to do so because of my frame bucket (s10) and the "bolt in" coil over kit from QA1 is junk in my opinion just because of the spring rates and the over all amount of drop I want to run.

So there is where the "nascar" set up comes to mind because of working with the air bagged trucks running a standard 7" bag in the pocket and out board shocks it works... so Im thinking of trying this with a coil and the jack plate. (air bags suck btw for spring rate control, again my opinion so dont crucify me ridetech people)

Anybody got any Idea's or thought's on this?

Matt

[DEIGuy38]

You could run these adjusters. The adjusters you show won't let you run a shock through the middle. These are the same style Mark Stielow ran in the Thrasher 69 camaro and Carl Casanova ran in his 68 Camaro. Here is my add in the for sale section. I was going to run these but went with DSE Speed kit 2 and Quadralink. Gaetano has seen my car.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=39350 If you are interested let me know, make offers. I just finished the install of the speed kit 2 yesterday so need these gone.

[exwestracer]

If you go to a full coil over, you have the option of moving the lower mount much closer to the lower ball joint. This in turn allows you to run a much lighter lower arm and softer spring rate. Also, the entire package is a little lighter, if for no other reason than the smaller spring.

I'm glad someone brought up the point about needing to move the shock if you go to the stock car weight jack. Where would you put the shock at that point? You're in the same boat as the air bag guys...

[badmatt]

Originally Posted by exwestracer

If you go to a full coil over, you have the option of moving the lower mount much closer to the lower ball joint. This in turn allows you to run a much lighter lower arm and softer spring rate. Also, the entire package is a little lighter, if for no other reason than the smaller spring.

I'm glad someone brought up the point about needing to move the shock if you go to the stock car weight jack. Where would you put the shock at that point? You're in the same boat as the air bag guys...

Shock relocation is the easy part. I am going to sink it into the frame and the top mount will be welded to the front stringers of the cage. (For turning radius purposes)

Sorta like this but with out the upper mount.


OR am I heading in a wrong direction?

Matt

[exwestracer]

Personally, I don't think I'd go that route on a performance build. Ideally, you want the shock pushing directly against the spring (concentric). With that offset mount, you will be inducing some twist into the lower arm as the shock tries to resist the spring motion. Depending on the arm design, this may not be a huge deal, but we spend a lot of effort in getting all the compliance out of the suspension, and in that case the shock is definitely not directly counteracting the load.

Looks cool, though...

[badmatt]

Ok now my next question, Does the spring have to be concentric or can it be on the same Plain and a relative arc of motion?

Reason I ask is that my lower control arm shock mounts can be in the same line of the center of the coil spring.

Im not disregarding your knowledge at all just trying to figure out a feasible way of making this work.

But there has been one other option I Have been looking at. What Brian did with his camaro.



But this is the extreme of what I would like to do. lower control arm is a tad short on these trucks.

Or in the chicayne kit format.

Matt

[Track Junky]

I also dont like the way your shock is currently set up at the front of the a-arm. I'm going to standby here and wait for Ray's answer but I'm pretty sure your going to want both shock and spring working on the same plane.

This might be a dumb question but it sounds like you want to incorporate the air bags in your set up?

[exwestracer]

Originally Posted by badmatt

Ok now my next question, Does the spring have to be concentric or can it be on the same Plain and a relative arc of motion?

Reason I ask is that my lower control arm shock mounts can be in the same line of the center of the coil spring.

Im not disregarding your knowledge at all just trying to figure out a feasible way of making this work.

But there has been one other option I Have been looking at. What Brian did with his camaro.



But this is the extreme of what I would like to do. lower control arm is a tad short on these trucks.

Or in the chicayne kit format.

Matt

Not sure I'm understanding your comment on the control arm length... The arm could be the exact same length no matter what you do with the spring and/or shock. What you have pictured here is by far the BEST layout for what you are asking, IMO. Only thing I would change would be to extend (or redesign) the top mount to get the shock as upright as possible. There is still room left in the upper arm to move the shock out further, even allowing for angle change in compression.

Any time the shock is outside the spring, the LCA needs to be built heavier to resist the force offset between the shock and spring. The further away the shock is located (in any direction), the beefier the arm needs to be. Keep in mind I am looking at this from a pure design standpoint, NOT saying that any available arms or components "won't work"...

[IMPALA MAN]

Take the total weight of:
Upper and lower (steel) spring buckets/cups (which you can remove when going to coil-overs) + two 5" springs

Then take the total weight of:
Two (aluminum) coil-over kits that go on the shock + two 2-1/2" coil springs.

Multiply the difference times two and I think you will see the third advantage.
Since one end of the shock is connected to the "sprung" part of the suspension and the other end is connected to the "unsprung" part of the suspension. The weight savings affects both sprung and unsprung weights.