Norwood

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by intocarss

MAKE SURE YOUR ROCKERS AREN'T HITTING THE VALVE COVER I ran the same VC's you are and some of my rockers were hitting

Hmmm, glad I'm not using cork gaskets!

[intocarss]

I have alum roller rockers and some hit. Are those stock type rocker nuts? You should really use Poly Locks

Your INT is looking good. I like my NRG hub Now I don't have to pull the seat to get under the dash..

I use cork gaskets So what are ya trying to say?? LOLOL

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Sieg

OK, back to car stuff.

Starter works, valves readjusted again as setting them from zero lash (just to the tension the pushrod wouldn't turn) and pre-loading a 1/2 turn was resulting in a couple rattlers. Re-adjusted checking the previous pre-load when backing them off and reset them with 5/8 pre-load which quieted them down but still detect a little valve train clatter so I'll probably give them another 1/8 turn for a total of 3/4.

After the valves I pulled the card to check transfer slot exposure which is supposed to be .025" according to the Holley tech. My Demon was spec'd at .020". As suspected due to flat condition right off idle, the transfer slots were not exposed which probably happened during the break in when my helper dialed them open and didn't note the turns in.

I fire the motor with the slots set at .025" and fuel screws at a rich 1.75 turns out, and the idle bypass circuit in the mid position approx. 2.5 turns out from open. When up to temp the idle speed was 2,200, closing the idle bypass circuit lowered it to 2,100 rpm.

I tried leaning and richening the fuel screws to see if they would have any impact on idle speed adjustment via the bypass valve but no luck. I backed off the throttle idle screws 5/8 of a turn and obtained 1K rpm but from the top of the venturi's it looks like the transfer slots are close to zero exposure again. A quick test drive indicated it was still a little flat when the clutch fulling engaged but it was an improvement from previous settings.

Looks like the only way I'm going to get some transfer slot exposure and the idle speed around 900-1,000 is by backing off the 16* initial timing and setting idle speed with initial timing to a point that allows some idle speed adjustment via the carb circuits.

Then make up the loss of initial timing with more total mechanical and quicker ramp up via lighter springs.

Does it sound like I'm on the right track?

Just came in from setting the timing or attempting to set it. Got it up to temp checked idle timing and it was at 15.5*-16* as previously set. Bumped the idle speed up with throttle shaft adjusters, loosened the distributor and retarded to 14* but it want to float about +/-2*, snugged the clamp and it was still floating and idle was still high in relation to carb transfer slots. Loosened and backed the idle down (roughly 1,200 to 1,000) with ignition and it was still floating around, check it at had about 12* and tightened the clamp about 20 ft lbs. Revved the motor a little and it settles in at 4*. Revved it again and got a little backfire and flame through the carb. When I shut the motor off I thought I heard a subtle thump at the rear of the car. I also have noticed that the fuel pressure appears down from 6 psi to 5 while running and it bleeds off pressure quicker than usual after the motor is shut down.


Stopped while typing this and went back at it and the car was hesitant to start, full pedal and it finally lit and acted fine. Check timing and it was a 4* as before, fuel pressure at 5 psi. Checked distributor hold down and it was tight. When revved the motor is slower than usual to return to idle. Tried again to set timing at 10 - 12* and the slightest rotation of the distributor (1/32") would take the timing from 4* to 12-16* and I couldn't get it to lock down in the 10-12* range it would lock lower at 4* or higher at 14-16*, locked at 4* and shut it off and heard the thump again and it sounded like it could have been the Flowmaster 80 series transverse muffler due to a backfire in the exhaust. Fired it again and it acted fine revved good decent throttle response and returned idle quicker.

-Distributor was loosened enough to turn but not without effort.
-Cap looks good.
-Rotor - contact arm was slightly loose (would move a 32nd with a little pressure), Loctited and snugged down.
-Inductive pickups in distributor are snug, clean, no damage. vacuum lockout is tight, etc.
-Geardrive ?????????
-Distributor gear ????????
-Fuel pressure issue???????

Something isn't right.............but the motor sounds crisp and sync'd at a 1K idle from behind.

I certainly don't trust the symptoms a this point.

Any clues appreciated.

[GregWeld]

It's too late -- and after reading this a couple times --- I've got to give this one some thought....


The one thing we KNOW has changed is your valve adjustment....


Are you hand rolling the motor to find the base of the cam lobes? There's a procedure for doing this...

[Vegas69]

Mechanical advance has to be sticking.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

It's too late -- and after reading this a couple times --- I've got to give this one some thought....


The one thing we KNOW has changed is your valve adjustment....


Are you hand rolling the motor to find the base of the cam lobes? There's a procedure for doing this...

Thanks Greg.

I'm not hand rolling, tapping through the stroke with remote switch. When a rocker starts on the down stroke one more tap and adjust the adjacent valve, if the valve goes over the top I catch it on the next cycle. When in doubt I'd double check. All adjustments were documented on a map.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Mechanical advance has to be sticking.

Thanks Todd, I twisted the rotor to check for travel and smoothness earlier and it felt ok.........
I'll pull the rotor tomorrow and check the springs and advance bushing in more detail. I did just change a spring and bushing. Hope it's that simple.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Mechanical advance has to be sticking.

sounds like it....or the springs are too light...can you get the idle down to 900?
i'd check to see if you have too much idle circuit in the secondaries. shove a clean rag in the secondary bores to see if the engine stalls.

[DaleTx]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Just came in from setting the timing or attempting to set it. Got it up to temp checked idle timing and it was at 15.5*-16* as previously set. Bumped the idle speed up with throttle shaft adjusters, loosened the distributor and retarded to 14* but it want to float about +/-2*, snugged the clamp and it was still floating and idle was still high in relation to carb transfer slots. Loosened and backed the idle down (roughly 1,200 to 1,000) with ignition and it was still floating around, check it at had about 12* and tightened the clamp about 20 ft lbs. Revved the motor a little and it settles in at 4*. Revved it again and got a little backfire and flame through the carb. When I shut the motor off I thought I heard a subtle thump at the rear of the car. I also have noticed that the fuel pressure appears down from 6 psi to 5 while running and it bleeds off pressure quicker than usual after the motor is shut down.


Stopped while typing this and went back at it and the car was hesitant to start, full pedal and it finally lit and acted fine. Check timing and it was a 4* as before, fuel pressure at 5 psi. Checked distributor hold down and it was tight. When revved the motor is slower than usual to return to idle. Tried again to set timing at 10 - 12* and the slightest rotation of the distributor (1/32") would take the timing from 4* to 12-16* and I couldn't get it to lock down in the 10-12* range it would lock lower at 4* or higher at 14-16*, locked at 4* and shut it off and heard the thump again and it sounded like it could have been the Flowmaster 80 series transverse muffler due to a backfire in the exhaust. Fired it again and it acted fine revved good decent throttle response and returned idle quicker.

-Distributor was loosened enough to turn but not without effort.
-Cap looks good.
-Rotor - contact arm was slightly loose (would move a 32nd with a little pressure), Loctited and snugged down.
-Inductive pickups in distributor are snug, clean, no damage. vacuum lockout is tight, etc.
-Geardrive ?????????
-Distributor gear ????????
-Fuel pressure issue???????

Something isn't right.............but the motor sounds crisp and sync'd at a 1K idle from behind.

I certainly don't trust the symptoms a this point.

Any clues appreciated.

If you are using the lighter springs on the distributor advance, and your idle is high (over 1,000) then I'd bet your advance is just starting to kick in at idle. This would explain why the timing is inconsistent and changes so much when you just barely move the distributor. If you have one size heavier spring for the distributor advance then try that and see what happens.

This could also explain why the engine is not returning to idle properly.

Just an idea for something to try.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

sounds like it....or the springs are too light...can you get the idle down to 900?
i'd check to see if you have too much idle circuit in the secondaries. shove a clean rag in the secondary bores to see if the engine stalls.

Distributor has a silver and blue spring currently, it was running fine with that set up but I found out the transfers slots were not exposed so I set them at .025 and had a 2K idle. The symptoms started when I loosened the distributor to retard the initial timing from 16* to a number that would deliver an acceptable idle speed and carb settings.

I can get it below 1K with little or no transfer slot exposure (.025 is spec). Problem was flat power as the clutch engaged.