Shop Build Rides

[GregWeld]

Since I was mentioned in another post --- I'll toss some stuff in the room for you to think about.


#1 -- Go with a shop that works on the kind of car you're going to build if you can find one. Familiarity with the parts - suppliers - quality - and job at hand will help make the process smoother.

#2 -- These jobs are like house remodels... YOU and the shop must understand there is no way to have X Ray eyes and know what's under the paint etc... and costs can mount up quickly when you get in there and find bad stuff.


#3 -- It always happens - to everyone - when you're doing these projects when your buddy says --- DUDE! You know what would REALLY BE KOOL?? Or you get on these boards and see what others are doing. So in other words -- PLAN YOUR BUILD AND BUILD WHAT YOU PLANNED. Or be prepared to have delays and costs that go with those changes.



#4 -- This is a HOBBY -- do you enjoy the journey? Do you understand what this costs in terms of not just cash - but time? Do you want your car done next week - or are you ready to just wade in and keep at it until the car is ready? I have a buddy / friend that spent 2 million dollars building a car and he's never taken the car home even though it's finished years ago... HE loves the process he really doesn't care about the car once it's done. He's already moved on to the next project or two... MOST OF US AREN'T THAT GUY -- but you may be surprised at what kind of guy you are... the process -- or the "get 'er done" guy. Etc. The trouble is -- most of us don't know who we are.


#5 -- Money isn't everything - but you don't know that until you're actually writing the checks. Building a SEMA quality car is just huge money.... if you think that's the quality you're going to get - and your budget is 35 grand all in all done.... OH and you only actually have 10 grand now.... FUHGIDABOUDIT. If you can write a 10K check every month for a few months and then maybe when it gets to paint - write a check for 20/30 grand -- oh yeah! Then it need upholstery and that's another 12/15/20 grand..... So what I'm saying is --- make damn sure you really understand what you're getting into. I hope you can do this and that you LOVE the process and the finished product.


RE: BRIZIO

He runs a business -- it just happens to build hot rods.

He completely understands what it takes to build these cars - they've done 10 gazillion of them.

His shop has specialists -- in other words - a guy that just does plumbing - another guy does the floors and firewall fab - another guy that does sheetmetal fab work - a guy that just does chassis. Ya get the picture? Each guy does the same thing over and over - with various changes but they're set up to work without interruption and with all the right tools and skills etc. The chassis guy doesn't have to go out and figure out how the crossmember sets in.

We had a conversation about what I wanted to build - we looked at lots of pictures - we got a plan. That plan has not changed.

I gave them 50 grand a year ago the middle of June. That ordered the body - motor - trans - frame rails.

When those arrived - I gave him another 100 grand. So call that last September/October.

The car has chassis - chassis mods - rear end - front end - grill - motor - trans - all plumbing - fuel tank - dash board - gauges - body - top - glass - A/C - one off wheels - tires - one off hood - and hood sides - louvers - custom tail pan - complete exhaust headers to tailpipes.... and is now in paint shop.

I have not been asked for another dime despite my asking if they need "more". I was told that they'll need more when paint is complete - and of course then it gets wired and upholstery. So while I don't know what that is - I have a good guess and this isn't the cheap guy. So I think the car will be finished for EXACTLY what we discussed a year ago.... as in like within 10 grand or so.

His shop rate is 105 per hour....

Think about that! That's the best of the best shop rate.


$105 an hour - is he "efficient"? Can he do in an hour what the $35 an hour guy takes 3 hours to do? My guess is he is. Why? Because he sticks to what he knows and his shop is set up for. The total of my "custom" touches are frenched tail lights and license plate - custom grill (done a zillion times) and fancy wheels (also done before so they're really 2nd off instead of one off).

Here's what's even more important to me. I knew exactly what I wanted - and I'm building exactly that. The shop can order parts and just keep on truckin'

[fleet]

The great input from many is appreciated.

If people pay attention to what is being said here, they (myself included) can really help themselves avoid a lot of wasted time and money.

...accept no substitutes.

[GregWeld]

I would challenge you all to another way of thinking....



If the "shop" isn't PROUD of their work --- and you look around a shop and all you see is a bunch of halfassed finished cars - in disarray... dusty... parts strewn all over the benches and under the car... IS THAT THE WAY YOU WANT YOUR PARTS AND PROJECT TREATED? Oh yeah ---- he's cheap per hour. But most likely you're paying his rent and food bill and not getting any work done...


When you look at pictures of shops on this forum -- (The Roadster Shop -- Ironworks -- Muscle Rods -- East Bay Muscle Cars -- Rad Rides by Troy -- BBT -- Holohans -- et al --- Sorry guys if I forgot to name every one of the GREAT builders on this site!).... do you see crap piles? NOPE. Do you see QUALITY FABRICATION going on? HECK YEAH! That takes SKILLS -- THAT TAKES TIME - TIME IS MONEY... These guys aren't doing this for $10 an hour... For the most part - they're not getting rich either.... they are doing what they love and making a living. I wish them all the very very best and have the highest respect for them and their employees. To me - they are gods.

So look around a shop and really SEE what is going on.... and how it's going on.... and SEE if the employees are WORKING on something... hang around a bit and SEE if they're doing it the way you want yours done or is it dent pullers and mud. Are the panels GAPPED (their is no spray for this YET but Doctor Renner and Ironworks are close to a formula!).... are they straight - is the paint flat and orange peel free... is the chrome / Stainless laying flat and tight to the body... is the motor clean and well wired -- IS THE STUFF PROTECTED from accidental damage..... or is the brand new shiny doohickey (the stuff you're looking at belongs to somebody!) filthy and beat up already...

In short --- PAY ATTENTION to more than just the "quote" or scope of work...

[syborg tt]

I agree with Greg. Dave at Comp Fab did all of the initial fab work on Syborg for about 25 grand. I a matter of days (not weeks) he completed the entire back half and had the truck back on the ground. So paying Dave a few more bucks an hour was well worth it. Because he is much more efficient them most guys out there.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

$105 an hour - is he "efficient"? Can he do in an hour what the $35 an hour guy takes 3 hours to do? My guess is he is. Why? Because he sticks to what he knows and his shop is set up for. The total of my "custom" touches are frenched tail lights and license plate - custom grill (done a zillion times) and fancy wheels (also done before so they're really 2nd off instead of one off).

Here's what's even more important to me. I knew exactly what I wanted - and I'm building exactly that. The shop can order parts and just keep on truckin'

[Flash68]

I posted my comment to actually generate more of this exact type of discussion in this thread and I see it worked. Some great responses from builders and customers in this thread now.

Originally Posted by ironworks

The biggest thing I have learned in business is picking the right customers. This is really hard, I have picked my share and more of some bad apples. At this point we have some awesome customers. And having a good customer does not have anything to do with how thick their wallet is. It helps. But it really has to do with their ability to actually understand the amount of work it takes to build this junk and be able to tell the difference in quality of cars and be able to reasonably understand the level of work that will satisfy them and that they will be able to pay for in a timely manner.

Great point and not talked about a lot. It's always prospective customers looking for a shop, not the other away around.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

This is a HOBBY -- do you enjoy the journey? Do you understand what this costs in terms of not just cash - but time? Do you want your car done next week - or are you ready to just wade in and keep at it until the car is ready? I have a buddy / friend that spent 2 million dollars building a car and he's never taken the car home even though it's finished years ago... HE loves the process he really doesn't care about the car once it's done. He's already moved on to the next project or two... MOST OF US AREN'T THAT GUY -- but you may be surprised at what kind of guy you are... the process -- or the "get 'er done" guy. Etc. The trouble is -- most of us don't know who we are.

So true and you gotta just learn the old fashioned hard way to figure this out usually.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I would challenge you all to another way of thinking....



If the "shop" isn't PROUD of their work --- and you look around a shop and all you see is a bunch of halfassed finished cars - in disarray... dusty... parts strewn all over the benches and under the car... IS THAT THE WAY YOU WANT YOUR PARTS AND PROJECT TREATED? Oh yeah ---- he's cheap per hour. But most likely you're paying his rent and food bill and not getting any work done...

Another great point. Some people think they know exactly where everything is in their shop (you may think you are organized in your clusterf*ck way but the perception to customers and visitors is that you are a mess -- THAT matters).

And taking care of your expensive parts paid for with hard earned dollars is important too. Just having them simple protected in their staging area or on their dedicated cart means a lot to me. I have dealt with both.

Good talk, Rusty.

[fleet]

Originally Posted by Flash68

I posted my comment to actually generate more of this exact type of discussion in this thread and I see it worked.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by compos mentis

Ya like that did ya.

I don't like those suspenders.

[fleet]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Ya like that did ya.

I don't like those suspenders.

Jes making it safe for work...where the most hours on lat-g are spent.

...maybe.

[tmadden]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I would challenge you all to another way of thinking....



If the "shop" isn't PROUD of their work --- and you look around a shop and all you see is a bunch of halfassed finished cars - in disarray... dusty... parts strewn all over the benches and under the car... IS THAT THE WAY YOU WANT YOUR PARTS AND PROJECT TREATED? Oh yeah ---- he's cheap per hour. But most likely you're paying his rent and food bill and not getting any work done...


When you look at pictures of shops on this forum -- (The Roadster Shop -- Ironworks -- Muscle Rods -- East Bay Muscle Cars -- Rad Rides by Troy -- BBT -- Holohans -- et al --- Sorry guys if I forgot to name every one of the GREAT builders on this site!).... do you see crap piles? NOPE. Do you see QUALITY FABRICATION going on? HECK YEAH! That takes SKILLS -- THAT TAKES TIME - TIME IS MONEY... These guys aren't doing this for $10 an hour... For the most part - they're not getting rich either.... they are doing what they love and making a living. I wish them all the very very best and have the highest respect for them and their employees. To me - they are gods.

So look around a shop and really SEE what is going on.... and how it's going on.... and SEE if the employees are WORKING on something... hang around a bit and SEE if they're doing it the way you want yours done or is it dent pullers and mud. Are the panels GAPPED (their is no spray for this YET but Doctor Renner and Ironworks are close to a formula!).... are they straight - is the paint flat and orange peel free... is the chrome / Stainless laying flat and tight to the body... is the motor clean and well wired -- IS THE STUFF PROTECTED from accidental damage..... or is the brand new shiny doohickey (the stuff you're looking at belongs to somebody!) filthy and beat up already...

In short --- PAY ATTENTION to more than just the "quote" or scope of work...

GOSPEL

[DBasher]

Great discussion and real world advice so far. I gotta ask the question of warranty on these high dollar builds. I know Greg had issues with the 32 built in Orygon, what all is covered?
If the chassis developed a rattle or the paint blisters or the 20k interior is wonky after a few months what happens? Are builders standing behind the work?

Blows my mind on what is spent on some of these cars

Dan