Ridetech TruTurn on 69 Camaro

[glr0212]

with a stock subframe there is no way you are fitting a 265 or 275 tire in there without giving up turning radius (tire hits the frame rail) or rubbing the fender lip.

Its not happening. if you want it to fit and function you better look at aftermarket subframes or widened fenders

[bret]

Originally Posted by glr0212

with a stock subframe there is no way you are fitting a 265 or 275 tire in there without giving up turning radius (tire hits the frame rail) or rubbing the fender lip.

Its not happening. if you want it to fit and function you better look at aftermarket subframes or widened fenders

I have to respectfully disagree.

Our Tru Turn system consists of tubular StrongArm upper and lower control arms, our RideTech spindle [which is both taller than the oem unit and has a raised pin to lower the car], a different steering arm, and a special drag ling bracket to re-position the tie rods to optimize the steering geometry. Not only can you fit a 18x10 wheel with a 275mm front tire, but the camber curve, bumpsteer and caster alignment are also optimized.

If you use the 18x10 wheel you will need to use a 5.75 backspace. With that fitment [and the recommended alignment specs] the tire will contact the subframe just enough to possibly rub some paint off at full lock. IF you also incorporate shorter subframe/body bushings, you will also need to make MILD modifications to the outer portion of the inner fender for clearance.

IF you use stock height subframe bushings and/or put the 275 tire on a 18x9.5 wheel with a 5.5 backspace, no mods are needed to anything.

All of this is covered in the info and instructions http://www.ridetech.com/store/tru-turn/


We have a 67 and a 68 Camaro in our own stable to demonstrate this, and hundreds of additional customers who have successfully installed this package.

Yes, it's tight.
No, if you do not align the frontend, it may not fit [or perform as intended].
Yes, you must use the complete package, it MAY NOT fit or be compatible with other brand components. [other companies and customers have verified fitment and function with other brand components]
Yes, you should be aware of header fitment. Some of the older gen 1 small block header designs are troublesome. Most LS conversions are fine.

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by glr0212

with a stock subframe there is no way you are fitting a 265 or 275 tire in there without giving up turning radius (tire hits the frame rail) or rubbing the fender lip.

Its not happening. if you want it to fit and function you better look at aftermarket subframes or widened fenders

Hope my car never finds this out!

[Shmoov69]

I got one in mine, but hasn't had a chance to align it or drive it more than twice. The drivers tire rubs the fender when turning hard. I had stock drum spindles and chopped springs before and it didn't rub. And I have a HUGE tire in front.... 17x7 wheel and 245/45.... Well, not big I mean! LoL! Not sure why its rubbing and really hope the alignment fixes it.
Any thoughts Brett?

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by glr0212

with a stock subframe there is no way you are fitting a 265 or 275 tire in there without giving up turning radius (tire hits the frame rail) or rubbing the fender lip.

Its not happening. if you want it to fit and function you better look at aftermarket subframes or widened fenders

10 inch rim! 275-40-17, stock subframe, Tru-turn, no loss of turning, second fastest car in Del Mar this weekend, you want to see my car turn the click this link
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

I don't know who gave you bad advice? but here's what you get with a tru turn, and a 10inch rim running 275 tires, BETTER turn in, NO bump steer, QUICKER reaction to inputs, IMPROVED camber change, these companies spend a lot of money figuring this **** out man, they don't just throw crap in a box and sell it

[onevoice]

Originally Posted by Rod P

I don't know who gave you bad advice? but here's what you get with a tru turn, and a 10inch rim running 275 tires, BETTER turn in, NO bump steer, QUICKER reaction to inputs, IMPROVED camber change, these companies spend a lot of money figuring this **** out man, they don't just throw crap in a box and sell it

Not to be critical, because I love your car, but fitting big tires isn't just a matter of taking "bad advice"

Bret above:

IF you use stock height subframe bushings and/or put the 275 tire on a 18x9.5 wheel with a 5.5 backspace, no mods are needed to anything

You in this thread: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/9...light=tru+turn

I use 5.5" backspace on a 17x9.5 rim

You have the same picture of your car in the other thread, so which do you use 9.5" or 10" ? Lay a tape on it and take a picture so we are all sure.

The ridetech 48hr camaro does have substantially cut inner and outer fenders/fenderwells. Not enough to look abnormal, but you sure couldn't do it to a painted car, and of course the factory trim won't fit either. The bottom line is that the clearances are too close to make blanket generalizations unless you err on the conservative side. Also, some people have different definitions of what rubbing is, I believe it means taking the spring out and cycling the wheels side to side with the suspension BOTTOMED OUT. Some think if the tires only hit in extreme maneuvers all is fine, and that is ok, as long as everyone understands the situation. An extremely important factor is the camber that is aligned in. An autocross car that goes through a couple of sets of tires a season, isn't worried about -1.5 degrees or more negative camber, whereas a 100% street car isn't going to run near as much, and that extra camber from tilting the top of the tire in helps tremendously in letting the tire and the top of the fender get along.

As far as I know, there is no one who has tested and published all the variables vs what tire fits. Camber / tire size / wheel offset / ride height /17s & 18's / brake packages / steering & idler arms / headers / etc, etc. If ridetech sent me a truturn, and BFG sent me some Rivals, and Forgeline sent me some wheels in 1/8" different offsets, I would take a stab at it, but we know the likelihood of that is zero.

A search of tru-turn topics just makes things worse, because most responses don't offer enough details of a particular combo to draw concrete conclusions.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Great observation.

I always tell people, do the work to check fitment BEFORE you buy the wheel. Borrow a wheel fitment tool, trial fit a test wheel ask the wheel company if they can send you a blank tester. Doing the extra research can save SO much trouble in the end.
Also, just cause Joe A fit the tires and wheels doesn't mean its going to fit Joe B's car. Advise from others are just suggested sizes. Somewhere to start.
Another thing. When fitting wheels and tires, its way cheaper to modify going in than it is going out.
Some customers just aren't comfortable wackin their inner wells or taking a ball bat to the fenders.

It will and can fit, your just gonna have to do the work.

[Rod P]

yep that's lot! so lets se if I can help, from the top,

Originally Posted by onevoice

Not to be critical, because I love your car, but fitting big tires isn't just a matter of taking "bad advice"

bad advice, poor advice, whatever you want to call it, I see it all the time others saying, things don't fit, its all wrong, my question to the OP(original poster) say you cant fit it on a stock frame and you lose turning radius is "Did you try?" and "if so, what didn't work and could it have been fixed or done differently to, did your rim have the wrong offset? wrong steering arms? different camber or castor? for example after I installed the tru-trun I had the same steering in one direction and not the other, after looking at all the parts and cycling the steering over and over I found with manufacturing tolerances +/- whatever they are the steering arm stop hit a 1/2 earlier on one side than the other(could have been the 40+ year old frame angle, lower control arm mounting holes, whatever) I simply ground the steering stop down for clearance, same steering and now better ackerman

Originally Posted by onevoice

You have the same picture of your car in the other thread, so which do you use 9.5" or 10" ? Lay a tape on it and take a picture so we are all sure.

yep sorry about that off the shelf Coys model C55, 17X9.5, rear spacing 5.50", offset +6mm, Bore Dia 78.1mm, bolt pattern 5-120.65,all four corners

Originally Posted by onevoice

The ridetech 48hr camaro does have substantially cut inner and outer fenders/fenderwells. Not enough to look abnormal, but you sure couldn't do it to a painted car, and of course the factory trim won't fit either. The bottom line is that the clearances are too close to make blanket generalizations unless you err on the conservative side. Also, some people have different definitions of what rubbing is, I believe it means taking the spring out and cycling the wheels side to side with the suspension BOTTOMED OUT. Some think if the tires only hit in extreme maneuvers all is fine, and that is ok, as long as everyone understands the situation. An extremely important factor is the camber that is aligned in. An autocross car that goes through a couple of sets of tires a season, isn't worried about -1.5 degrees or more negative camber, whereas a 100% street car isn't going to run near as much, and that extra camber from tilting the top of the tire in helps tremendously in letting the tire and the top of the fender get along.

yes my suspension was also cycled, that should be a standard thing to do when building (I'm no expert/engineer/designer just a hot rodder telling others what I have done) in fact I have a cool little test stand made from and old frame (cost me 50 bucks) and a old creeper, I try everything on first and measure....here it is with the tru-turn, DSE upper arm and stock lower arm



here you can see I'm trying Hotchkis springs in the setup, along with coil overs and several different spindles





and to me rubbing is rubbing and any friction between the tire and any surface other than the road is unsafe, I run 1.2-1.5 degrees camber(daily driven), my inner fender well is modified as shown in my build thread after the car was painted, I did it with a cool $19.95 harbor freight brake and scrap aluminum

Originally Posted by onevoice

As far as I know, there is no one who has tested and published all the variables vs what tire fits. Camber / tire size / wheel offset / ride height /17s & 18's / brake packages / steering & idler arms / headers / etc, etc. If ridetech sent me a truturn, and BFG sent me some Rivals, and Forgeline sent me some wheels in 1/8" different offsets, I would take a stab at it, but we know the likelihood of that is zero.

probably not, I did a lot of testing on my own, crazy stuff, I even had extra steering arms that I heated and bent to run larger rims and fix bump steer, I cut lower control arms to add more castor and fix ball joint angles, Man, I have enough, extra suspension stuff that I have bought over the last 4 years, that I was able to build a custom suspension on my girlfriends 1963 AMC Rambler wagon and I still have enough to build another car+

Originally Posted by onevoice

A search of tru-turn topics just makes things worse, because most responses don't offer enough details of a particular combo to draw concrete conclusions.

agree, but my issues was just don't say it cant be done, that bugs me because 6 years ago I bought my car asked question and was told a lot of stuff on forums that I went ahead and did anyways and found out that many of those giving advice were wrong, WAY wrong, and a few companies that i have been around the last few years actually listened to a little racer guy like me

hope it all helps

[onevoice]

Originally Posted by Rod P

Thanks for the response. This first picture is a good example of why the saying is true, it is worth a thousand words. The rear of the fenderwell that is visible and bent, is why many people get nervous at just taking someone else's experience as gospel. It works for you, and that is ok, but for many with already painted cars including myself, that is just not going to work. I'm not racing the car anymore, it has a stupid expensive paintjob that took an insane amount of time, and a difficult to match color. Inner wheelwell work is fine, bending the outer fender is not.

So maybe the person above who said it can't be done is not so far off, depending on their criteria, ie no cutting. Especially if they were talking about 10" rims, ie 0.5" wider than yours, all added to the outside.

For 67-8's, a common fitting combination for many years has been an approximately 25.5" to 25.6" tall, 245 section tire on an 8" rim with 4.5" to 4.75" of backspacing. It usually fits with only minor rubbing at most. The truturn mod, using 5.75" of backspace, adds an additional 1.0" to 1.25" to the inner part of the rim, and the 275 tire adds an equal amount, also all added to the inside. Now you are up to 9.0 to 9.25" of total rim width. Adding the extra .75 to 1.0" to get to 10" total now has to all be added to the outer part of the rim, and this is where the fender problems start.

Originally Posted by Rod P

I run 1.2-1.5 degrees camber(daily driven), my inner fender well is modified as shown in my build thread after the car was painted, I did it with a cool $19.95 harbor freight brake and scrap aluminum



hope it all helps

Another good picture. I wish ridetech had documented the 48hr build with pictures of the inner and outer fender modifications. They kind of skipped over some important parts like the front fender mods (and the minitub). I know Bret says it is no big deal, and it isn't if you are in the build phase and you have wheels and tires to try, but if you are looking at modifying a built car, it could really help people make tire choices.

Also note that your 1.5 degrees of neg camber helps fender clearance by moving the top of the tire inward, but is probably more than a street only car looking for long tire life is going to want. An autocross only first gen camaro can use as much as 6 degrees negative. With that much you might get away with a 285 or 295.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by glr0212

with a stock subframe there is no way you are fitting a 265 or 275 tire in there without giving up turning radius (tire hits the frame rail) or rubbing the fender lip.

Its not happening. if you want it to fit and function you better look at aftermarket subframes or widened fenders

^

or unmodified inner fenderwells??? now tell the truth guys....I've seen them and I know what needs to be done.

You gotta do the work to get them there.