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Old 05-05-2014, 05:27 PM
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In this update I'm wrapping up (blessedly) the rear suspension install.

If you've not been following along, this is the Lateral Dynamics 3-Link System. Sadly, the company went out of business a few years ago so here's hoping nothing ever goes wrong with this damn thing or I'm hosed.

It's a really nicely designed system though. In use on James Shipka's "One Lap Camaro"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T8y_Q5RKcw

....and Yancy John's (former owner Steve Rupp) "Bad Penny" Camaro.


http://youtu.be/Ay2w0OGDRpQ?t=34s

Both tuned by David and Mary Pozzi and both work spectacularly well. There aren't many of these kits in existence, Mike Kelcy recently got his on the road and that is all the ones that belong to folks I know.

Matt Rogers did all the fabrication on these and I'll be damned if I've ever seen better fitment and welding. Broke my heart to cover it up in powder coating.



As you can see, I had the housing powder coated in a light gray to aid in spotting any leaks or cracks down the road. The 3rd member is a Strange (iron) 9" with 3.70 gears and a Detroit TrueTrac diff. Should be plenty stout.

The hardware in the system is all really top notch as well. I sure wish the manufacturer was still around, I'd love to have a list of the rod end sources and PN's for replacements if needed.



The install of this system was the most challenging part of the build thus far. I went into it with my eyes wide open on that and thanks in large part to Matt, David Pozzi and James Shipka I got through it. Here's hoping the performance potential of this system over some of the more "plug-n-play" bolt in kits makes it worth it.



As you can probably tell, the rear alignment is way off. Not worried about that right now. But I'll get it in the ballpark before it rolls out of the garage at the end of this month.





Next update with pics will cover the front suspension and shocks.....
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:04 PM
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Looking great True!!

Don't worry about the parts if you break, alot of it was off the shelf. Heims are standard and I believe the bell crank came from Fay's. You gonns paint the entire underside gray?
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:09 PM
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It looks very good. If it drives half as good as it looks you'll be dialed....
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:19 PM
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Love it True! Welcome back
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69 Camaro in progress
https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=31246

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Old 05-05-2014, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassman View Post
It looks very good. If it drives half as good as it looks you'll be dialed....

Right now, that is NOT a compliment.

But
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:40 PM
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Hey true don't forget about Carl Chicca's '69 Camaro also running the LD set up. Probably the fastest '69 Camaro on a road course.

Glad to see the huge progress
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:58 PM
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That's a great looking 3 link set up. It should serve you many good times on the autocross and track. I like the way the lower link bars are skewed slightly inward toward the driveshaft center line of the car, giving the total 3 link system better articulation. Nice set-up with the Watts link in the back.

Great work and looking forward to seeing what you do with the front.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab View Post
Looking great True!!

Don't worry about the parts if you break, alot of it was off the shelf. Heims are standard and I believe the bell crank came from Fay's. You gonns paint the entire underside gray?
Paint the bottom of a car?



Nah, the black that's on it now is just Eastwood primer to cover the bare metal from where I scraped off the old nasty undercoat. It'll get seam sealer where needed and maybe a bit of Lizard Skin to take the edge off the heat and noise. That's it.

I've always kinda thought that smoothing firewalls was a bit of a pointless expense but body working the underside of a car is like scented toilet paper. It's just gonna get crap all over it so why?

Last edited by Damn True; 05-05-2014 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:57 PM
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And now, on to front suspension v2.0.

I feel like I need to start with explaining why I felt the change was necessary. I count among my friends James Shipka and David Pozzi. They've worked together for years developing James' 1967 Camaro. When I began my build my intent was to duplicate his efforts. His car and mine share the same Lateral Dynamics 3-Link rear suspension. I followed with great interest their efforts to get the most out of the factory subframe with the ATS Chicane coil over conversion and AFX spindles. If you've followed that car at all you know that they came up against a number of limitations with respect to the ability to fit larger tires and do so in a fashion that didn't negatively impact geometry. Eventually, David created a solution to address both. David decided that he didn't want to duplicate the fix for me and I totally understand and respect that decision. So without a commercially available fix to the limitations of the AFX spindle I was at a decision point. Live with the limitations, change to an aftermarket subframe or change front suspension suppliers.

The first option seemed like not much of an option at all and the second was a hit to the budget for the project that I had a hard time justifying especially given the sweat-equity I had built into the factory subframe. When Ridetech released their new TruTurn solution I quickly realized that what they'd arrived at was very similar to what David had done on James' car and I began to explore that solution further.

Full disclosure, I was a critic of Ridetech when they first entered this market with what then were mainly air sprung solutions. After seeing the effort they've put into developing legitimate high performance suspension solutions over the last few years I can say that though my criticisms may have been valid at the time, they no longer are.

What sealed the deal though was the addition to Ridetech's offerings of a true 3-way adjustable damper. Developed in partnership with Fox Racing these are truly top notch pieces. In a former career I worked closely with engineers at Fox on development of a number of bicycle suspension dampers and I'm well aware of the depth of their experience, the talent of their engineering staff and the resources they can employ to develop a solution to a unique challenge. If you aren't aware (you probably are) Fox in addition to being a leading supplier of motorcycle, bicycle and snowmobile suspension is among the leaders in developing cutting edge off-road truck dampers as well. With data and creativity coming from those various areas of expertise and the knowledge and resources available I had no doubt that the solution to be co-developed with Fox and Ridetech would be a good one. The results found on James car proved out that assumption and I was sold.



Further, I want to point out the stellar customer service provided by Ridetech both pre and post-sale. Darren Schilling is RT's lead outside sales guy but he isn't some drone taking orders and writing down credit card numbers. The man absolutely knows the product and is an enthusiast of the first order. As an anecdote; while installing the front suspension I arrived at point in the install where the instructions for the TruTurn system installation and the spindle installation had a bit of a disconnect. So at roughly 6:30PM on a Friday night I tapped out a short email to him on my iPhone, hit send and went in the house fully expecting to get an answer sometime on Monday. I picked up my phone about an hour later to make a call and saw that Darren had replied to my question. At 9:30PM on a Friday night.

Now YMMV on that and I certainly wouldn't tell you to expect Ridetech to always be as responsive, after working hours, on a Friday but I think it speaks to the dedication of the staff that Bret has built.

So, on to the install.....

The Ridetech TruTurn is based on a proprietary spindle that has a built-in drop of (IIRC) 2" and is modified in terms of the height of the spindle as well. It does however use a factory pattern hub and brake mounting matching that of a '68 Camaro disk brake spindle so any brake bracket or hub that would work on a factory spindle will work on the RT spindle but you get the improved geometry.



Further, the RT system employs a custom steering arm and drag link offset bracket that the corrects for the steering geometry which is altered by the steering arm. If you look closely at the system and the changes made by David to James' car you will see the similarities in how the two solutions were arrived at.



All the above is designed to work with RT's control arms.

The first thing I noticed upon opening the massive pile of boxes was how well the stuff is packaged. The Samsonite gorilla (some of you are too young to know what I'm talking about here, youtube it) couldn't have hurt the contents of those boxes. I filled two entire trash cans with the styrofoam packing material used to protect the parts.

The second thing that struck me was how bloody nice the machining and fitment of the parts was.









The attention to detail on this stuff is apparent. The install kit for the shocks comes with a variety of bushings that will allow fitment to darn near any application.



....darn near. Because the Chicane coilover mount has one shock mount stub permanently affixed I had to machine my own bushing for one side. The means of doing so violated every safety discussion my HS shop teacher ever had and I shant disclose it here. It wasn't particularly difficult....it was just unsafe. It'd have been easier, and safer, with a proper lathe or mill...but I have neither. At any rate between RT's supplied parts and a bit of ingenuity (cough) I made it work.



The spring perch and pre-load collars fit perfectly and adjustments are buttery smooth given the precision machining of the shock bodies.



...and the shocks come with top notch springs from Hyperco. Tough to beat those. I'm starting with baseline rates of 700 front and 300 rear and as I'm sure you noticed in previous posts, I used the RT shocks in the rear as well....



Next item up was RT's front sway bar assembly. Again, really superb machining and excellent fit of all the parts. Absolutely no effort on my part required to get stuff to fit. Everything went in just right, the first time w/o any form of modification needed. Given the variations in production tolerances on 40+ year old cars this is kinda astonishing.








....image limit break....

Last edited by Damn True; 05-22-2014 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:59 PM
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....image limit break....

The control arms are just really burly pieces. I regret that I didn't take any pics of them prior to assembly so here are a couple from RT's website:



The lowers equipped with delerin bushings are built like a bridge abutment and fit perfectly into the spring pockets.

The uppers, also delerin equipped, feature a clever means of adjusting caster. Rather than stacking up a crapload of shims to get to the caster setting you desire, the RT cross shaft is milled out to accept one of three slugs that are centered or offset to the front or rear. This provides for three much smaller adjustment ranges for caster w/o a cludgey stack of shims.

[Note: I do in fact have a crapload of shims there. Seemed like the best place to put them so I didn't lose them before I got the car back on the ground and can do a rough alignment.]



As you can probably tell, I'm really excited about the shocks. Having Fox practically in my back yard (35min drive) is a nice bonus as well. And again, the fit and finish of the parts was top notch, service from RT before and after the sale has been stellar. I couldn't be happier at this point and I'm really looking forward to developing this solution to work in harmony with the Lateral Dynamics 3-link.

Next up.....My UPS guy is now out on disability.....here's why....


Last edited by Damn True; 05-22-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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