Thunderhill - NorCal Shelby Spring event

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

Hi Sieg,

It's hard to point out shortcomings, because your goal was to get some track time, have fun & not tear up Greg's toy. You achieved that very well.

The main issue with driving that speedy little car on track is so many other cars were slower. As they bunch up in front of you ... a guy has to ask himself is the risk of passing them all versus the gain ... when your goals are to simply get some track time, have fun & not tear up Greg's toy.

If you were racing, or running alone for fast time, the tips I would offer are:
a. Use ALL the track ... plus 2"

b. Work on carrying more corner entry speed by carrying full throttle farther & brake later into the corner ... 2' at a time ... until the rear end gets a tick free under braking, then back up this point until you regain good entry grip.

c. Next, work on carrying more mid-corner speed by braking less ... softer & shorter ... a little less each time ... until the rear end gets a tick free during the roll through zone (or pushes, depending on the set-up) then increase the braking distance until you regain good grip through the roll through zone.

* When deciding to brake harder versus longer to bring the roll through zone speed back down to achieve grip ... it is typically better to brake longer & softer as compared to harder & shorter. Braking harder has a tendency to upset the car more & "surprise" the tires. Plus braking soft longer keeps the nose planted longer for front tire grip.

d. Turn in later on most corners. Apex later.

e. On tight corners ... test & compare running a different line where you keep the car out wide longer & turn in later ... and turn in harder (at a higher degree) ... setting up your corner exit to be lower & straighter. Depending on the degree, I call this a 70/30 strategy (or if done to a lesser degree a 60/40 strategy). The goal is do 70% of the turning in the first half of the corner & only 30% of the turning on exit. This better matches the goals of matching slowing the car with more turning on entry & allowing faster throttle roll on due to the higher rear tire grip of the straighter exit line.

Many refer to this as simply a late apex style, but that's only partially accurate, as we can run a late apex and still not have the car turned 70% by mid way. In typical high powered cars, this 70/30 strategy is "usually" the faster way around tight radius corners.

* But ... in some super low powered, light, good handling cars ... sometimes the fastest way is to run the biggest radius possible through tight corners ... to keep the rolling speed & exit speed as high as possible. We won a lot Formula Ford races there at T-Hill with this strategy. These cars only weigh 900# & have 110hp. In the F2000 cars, with more power & down force, this wasn't necessary.

The Lotus is part way between that and typical track car. So I'd try both ways with corner segment timers to know for sure.

In other words:


Dear Sieg,


YOU SUCK.



Signed,
Charley Lillard

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by SSLance

I'm just glad Ron hasn't shared publically his comments on my driving on the autocross course last weekend.

I sent him the videos and my thoughts on what was going on and he immediately showed me some things that I was doing wrong...and how correcting them would make the car handle better and be faster on the clock. I can't wait for my next event now just to try to put his suggestions into action.

He is an invaluable resource for this sort of thing. We are so fortunate just to have him hanging around to show us the ropes.

In the racing world, everybody picks up nick names. One buddy of mine is named "Hatrack" because when he was a rookie on Bud Moore's Cup team, Bud told him ... in front of God & everyone ... that he needed to use his head for more than a hatrack.

P.S. Hatrack rose to the level of being a NASCAR Busch series crew chief, winning car builder, etc. But he still goes by Hatrack to this day.

Dave (Flash68) Gordon got a new nickname last weekend ... Cheeseball ... because Greg brought this OMG huge jar of cheeseballs to the track (must have been the size of a beer keg) ... and Dave couldn't stop eating them.

Dave's probably hoping that one doesn't stick to him like the fake cheese coloring did to his fingers. But typically nicknames stick until a better one comes along.

Of course when Cheeseball, Mike & I were up watching cars on track, I pointed out drivers braking so much they were almost "parking" their cars going into the Crow's Nest corner. I explained how I knew they were "parking" their cars ... because I saw the Sonic waitress rolling out on her skates to take their order.

Using that analogy, we'd need to name Greg "Drive Thru" because he was flying through the Crow's Nest. But I'm sure a situation will arise that leads to better one.

So Lance, if I was creating your nickname from the last video I watched, it would be either "sawdust" or "lumberjack."

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

In the racing world, everybody picks up nick names. One buddy of mine is named "Hatrack" because when he was a rookie on Bud Moore's Cup team, Bud told him ... in front of God & everyone ... that he needed to use his head for more than a hatrack.

P.S. Hatrack rose to the level of being a NASCAR Busch series crew chief, winning car builder, etc. But he still goes by Hatrack to this day.

Dave (Flash68) Gordon got a new nickname last weekend ... Cheeseball ... because Greg brought this OMG huge jar of cheeseballs to the track (must have been the size of a beer keg) ... and Dave couldn't stop eating them.

Dave's probably hoping that one doesn't stick to him like the fake cheese coloring did to his fingers. But typically nicknames stick until a better one comes along.

Of course when Cheeseball, Mike & I were up watching cars on track, I pointed out drivers braking so much they were almost "parking" their cars going into the Crow's Nest corner. I explained how I knew they were "parking" their cars ... because I saw the Sonic waitress rolling out on her skates to take their order.

Using that analogy, we'd need to name Greg "Drive Thru" because he was flying through the Crow's Nest. But I'm sure a situation will arise that leads to better one.

So Lance, if I was creating your nickname from the last video I watched, it would be either "sawdust" or "lumberjack."

I like yours better than "The Tasmanian Devil" that Charley started calling me after my first few "over rotations"....

[fleetus macmullitz]

So impressed what you bring to the table Ron.

At SEMA, some off-shore 'interests' may try to clone you.





lol

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

So Lance, if I was creating your nickname from the last video I watched, it would be either "sawdust" or "lumberjack."

lol...

I would have never noticed that action myself and no veteran that has ridden with me has ever mentioned it either, and I'm certain I've "sawed" on the wheel since the very beginning.

I won't be able to NOT think about that the next time I'm out on the course. Thanks...

[Damn True]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

In the racing world, everybody picks up nick names.......

This could get awesome/ugly.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by Damn True

This could get awesome/ugly.

That's true. Damn true.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Ron --- When you have a chance -- You are welcome to tear me a new you know what with comments on my driving... etc (if you've watched the videos). Others may learn from my mistakes and poor judgement. And to me - that's what it's all about. Charley has already destroyed any ego I had.

LOL ... Ok. I'll generalize what I observed, although I don't know what session that was.

In general ...
* Your lines are good.
* You were pretty smooth, although I can't see the steering wheel in the video.
* You're using 97% of the track
* Your braking was as good as could be done with the brakes not balanced. I occasionally heard brake hop.

In the first lap ... You were turning into the corner too early starting with 6 ... up through 10. In the 2nd & 3rd lap you started turning in later (better) in some but not all of 6-10. After that, your turn-in points were too early in 6-10.

You're going to hate this ... but Charley's lines through 6-10 are perfect. He is keeping the car out wider on entry ... turning later & harder ... apexing later ... and coming off straighter on the exits. That is what you need to do in 6-10:
* Stay out to the outside edge of the track longer
* Turn in later & harder
* Apex later
* Lessen the amount of turning needed on exits (straighten out the exits)

Also, you need to turn into turn 1 a bit later & apex a bit later.

Currently, the brakes are not allowing to go deep without locking up. I think when the brakes allow you to brake later ... all of this will be easier to accomplish.

Your entry into 14 is awesome. You need to use more track between 14-15 and get out wider ... all the way wide ... before going into 15 ... to set up more speed coming onto the straight.

Lastly, how you're getting through the Crow's Nest is inspiring. This is turn 5 for those of you not familiar with the track. This is the toughest corner for most drivers. As I joked earlier, Cheeseball, Mike & I were watching most drivers "park" their cars into that corner. So, don't change a thing ... as most these guys need to learn from you how to "Drive-Thru" that corner.

[GregWeld]

Funny because I noticed Charley's line as well and he flat spanked me in that section! Well.... really on the whole track -- but I really noticed how much speed he carried 6 thru 10....


I have difficulty with late apex's --- it just seems wrong to me. I will have to work on those! It seems to me that LATE apex's require a bigger turn-in..... and that always puckers me -- because I think I should be smooth and turn LESS.... yet - as you point out -- turning in later smoothes out the exit. I get it... but I don't get it....

[Sieg]

Charlie gapped you bad out of 14........I should make him a "He Sucks" decal for his rear view mirror!