Budget '69 Camaro Track Car - NO WHINERS!

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

A pad and rotor change would be the easiest route.

Time will tell Vince. The bigger Hoosiers up front with a good set of pads and rotors are going to tax the front end quite a bit........hubs, bearings, and control arm bushings are the first things that come to mind.

Yup. Cryo treatmeant.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Time will tell Vince. The bigger Hoosiers up front with a good set of pads and rotors are going to tax the front end quite a bit........hubs, bearings, and control arm bushings are the first things that come to mind.

Yup. Cryo treatmeant.

You'll be "Cryo" after Sonoma - but I digress (Gaetano - that means I'm off subject)...



When I heard the ratings on the various BEARINGS (wheel) I was shocked! My little bearings are good for like 950 -- and with some calculating Ron thinks I'm probably hammering with 1100 or 1200.... and the big race bearings we'll switch to will handle 1800ish


So I can't remember what the numbers represented... torque or what... I just remember that my little bitty bearings aren't good for the pressures we're running at.

It's kinda like the oil pan for the Lotus --- once we put sticky tires on it - I had to get an oil pan with baffling! With the poopie tires you couldn't corner hard enough to cause the oil to climb.

Well --- I'm thinking you're in that situation with the brakes Gaetano --- now you're running Hoosiers... big fat ones I might add (building evidence for later if his times are better than mine! LOL) you're cornering entry speeds can handle more -- and you'll be able to brake harder later... and you're going to run into that bearing load issue with those HUGE by WIDE big FAT super sticky Hoosiers (remember this conversation guys!).

[Track Junky]

Agreed. I have been looking into hubs and bearings also. The two brands that seem to come up are SKF and Timken. I will keep them in mind and at the same time plant the seed in Vinces head so that he can help me make a good decision based on what will apply to my existing set up. We'll also keep this season light with just 3 events in anticipation of making it to next season with the addition of Ronnie and Dave to the group.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Agreed. I have been looking into hubs and bearings also. The two brands that seem to come up are SKF and Timken. I will keep them in mind and at the same time plant the seed in Vinces head so that he can help me make a good decision based on what will apply to my existing set up. We'll also keep this season light with just 3 events in anticipation of making it to next season with the addition of Ronnie and Dave to the group.

Do either one have a car? Been so long I've forgotten....

[Vince@Meanstreets]

We know which direction we need to go...its just what we can do within his budget. I can only eat so much.

The Hoosiers were a surprise to me. That wasn't supposed to happen till after this season.

Spindles, steering arms, bearings and suspension bushings are on the check list.

stay tuned as we will all be doing our homework.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Agreed. I have been looking into hubs and bearings also. The two brands that seem to come up are SKF and Timken. I will keep them in mind and at the same time plant the seed in Vinces head so that he can help me make a good decision based on what will apply to my existing set up. We'll also keep this season light with just 3 events in anticipation of making it to next season with the addition of Ronnie and Dave to the group.

Not really the brand as much as maintenence, grease, pre load and inspection I feel is more important.

Each time your car comes in after a track event it goes up on the rack and the hubs are pre checked for free play, then torn down, the grease, bearings, races and spindle shafts are inspected. Its part of my Track-Pak inspection.

As of last inspection everything looked good.

Grease, We look for grease blow out, cook off and general condition.
Bearings and races we look for discoloration and pitting.
Spindle shaft we look for cracking, discoloration and galling.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

You'll be "Cryo" after Sonoma - but I digress (Gaetano - that means I'm off subject)...



When I heard the ratings on the various BEARINGS (wheel) I was shocked! My little bearings are good for like 950 -- and with some calculating Ron thinks I'm probably hammering with 1100 or 1200.... and the big race bearings we'll switch to will handle 1800ish


So I can't remember what the numbers represented... torque or what... I just remember that my little bitty bearings aren't good for the pressures we're running at.

It's kinda like the oil pan for the Lotus --- once we put sticky tires on it - I had to get an oil pan with baffling! With the poopie tires you couldn't corner hard enough to cause the oil to climb.

Well --- I'm thinking you're in that situation with the brakes Gaetano --- now you're running Hoosiers... big fat ones I might add (building evidence for later if his times are better than mine! LOL) you're cornering entry speeds can handle more -- and you'll be able to brake harder later... and you're going to run into that bearing load issue with those HUGE by WIDE big FAT super sticky Hoosiers (remember this conversation guys!).

The GM outer bearings are just tiny, I remember a thread with forces listed. I cannot find it now. I believe it was when Pozzi was addressing the short spindle failures.


Greg, I remember the thread and Rons listing for brake forces. I think it was Rons thread.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

Not really the brand as much as maintenence, grease, pre load and inspection I feel is more important.

Each time your car comes in after a track event it goes up on the rack and the hubs are pre checked for free play, then torn down, the grease, bearings, races and spindle shafts are inspected. Its part of my Track-Pak inspection.

As of last inspection everything looked good.

Grease, We look for grease blow out, cook off and general condition.
Bearings and races we look for discoloration and pitting.
Spindle shaft we look for cracking, discoloration and galling.

I just did all of this and really expected the bearings to have some issues... but they looked (after I degreased 'em) real good - we're talking inner and outer here - they ran and felt smooth - and the races weren't discolored or galled or any metal dust anywhere... I packed 'em full of synthetic grease -- put new seals in... and re-installed 'em back on the spiffy, cleaned to the ninth degree, spindles.

Really glad i did this nasty little job because the grease was definitely "cooked" off... Not dry - but definitely was ready to be cleaned up and gone.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

The GM outer bearings are just tiny, I remember a thread with forces listed. I cannot find it now. I believe it was when Pozzi was addressing the short spindle failures.


Greg, I remember the thread and Rons listing for brake forces. I think it was Rons thread.

Hey Guys,

A post I did on bearing thrust load capacities is here.


A post showing my new Track-Star hubs & the bearing size differences start on THIS PAGE. Be sure to read from post #427 to post #438.

The size & mass of the bearings define their ability to handle thrust loads ... and heat. A front hub bearing is a lot like a brake rotor. The larger it is the better its mass can handle the heat generated. The smaller it is, the higher the temps get & you get grease burn out.


The photos below show the sizes of bearings for reference.

Far left: Timken LM11949 rated at 917# thrust load. (Most GM 58-78, Ford 55-69 & Chrysler 55-72)
2nd from left: Timken LM12748 or LM12749 rated at 922# thrust load. (GM 82+, Ford 70-89)
3rd from left: Timken LM12649 rated at 1130# thrust load. (GM B-body & 1/2T trucks & Ford some HD apps 63-72)
Far right: Timken 2687 rated at 1800# thrust load. (Road Course & Oval Race Cars)

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Do either one have a car? Been so long I've forgotten....

We're expecting a celebrity guest appearance too!