Thinking of jumping in but...

[FETorino]

Originally Posted by BBBluey

50Gs is out of the question. I'm not looking to make this car a Pro-touring type. I just want it clean, nice looking and running so I can drive it everywhere just as if I lived in the 70s.

$50k will get you Brian's shaker scoop on his 71 Seriously with you doing NONE of the work a ProTouring build will be $150k+

Originally Posted by BBBluey

All good points.
I fully intend to do my best at getting the cost down but I'm pretty sure he won't go that low. He'll put it on ebay before going that low and then I'm certain one of you will buy it. Lol.

I seriously doubt you can find a 71 Bird in similar condition for that money. I've searched craiglist like a madman. There are 72 & up, but not 71s.
Am I way out of the park in thinking $10K will get it looking and running nice?
My guesstimate is ~$5K in body work & ~$3K for interior and ~$2K in motor/misc expenses. Again, not show car or street racer but respectable and dependable.

I saw a 71 Formula for $3500 a couple months ago on OC CL. I see a clean white car on SD CL asking $19k which could likely be bought for less.

The fact that you think the engine and misc will be less than the interior shows you are walking into a wall.

the motor in that 71 is junk. It is topped with a crapy air cleaner full of dirt that has been sucking down the carb. The waterpump has been weeping on the front cover, I'm sure the valve seats are screaming for lead and need to be replaced and I'd bet the motor has a nice nylon timing gear just waiting to skip a tooth and eat some parts.

You can't pull and reinstall the motor and even the cheapest rebuild with a PAW kit or some other junk from a shop will be $3500+. That's low end for a pull/install and junk rebuild. Trust me it will cost you way more than that for a proper rebuild.

You aren't even taking into account the worn out rubber bushing in the suspension. Those are cheap until you pay someone to install them.

You trust the brakes in a car that has been sitting and looks like an abandoned soup can?

Try at least a grand for a shop to just go through the stock brakes that are on there to make them safe.

I posted the 455 car as an example of a desirable numbers matching non TA car because #s matching was a statement you made.

#s matching is a term that you worry about for something rare and collectible. A Formula 350 is a cool looking car but a Formula 400 with a manual would be collectable.

The white car looks like a decent start. Beg one of the local SD members to go with you and look at it. At least everything on it is well kept and they painted the motor the right color.

Replacing the carpet would be a great first project for someone with no skills.

Project managing a complete restoration with no real knowledge is a recipe for disaster. I see you trying to talk yourself and all of us into paying to much for that 71 but if you do you will regret it.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Beware of clean white cars. Make sure you have it inspected by a pro. Spend a few bucks.

Carpet is cheap and easy to replace, also gives you a good opportunity to inspect for rust. I still like the Silver car better. But im a glutton for punishment.

[BBBluey]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

You're so far off it's not funny. I'm not trying to be mean or belittle your dream or desires. You asked for fair and honest opinions and that's what you're getting on here. Nobody is flaming you or the car... we're just "experienced" and know what the heck happens and what things cost and probably understand your expectations even better than you do.

Please just enjoy reading about the builds here and live vicariously. When you do have extra money --- Read "Investing 102" https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=34700 on Lateral-G and then when you're near retirement - you'll be a millionaire and can afford to do one of these dream cars for yourself.

BEFORE you buy the car ---- ask the seller if he'd be willing to go with you and drive it to a couple shops in your area and discuss what you are thinking about and your budget and time frame. PLEASE DO THIS BEFORE BUYING.... it will really open your eyes.

No offense taken whatsoever, I absolutely value your opinion and I'm all ears to your experience. Really thank you! You've broken the process down exceptionally well and scaring the crap out of me. In fact, I think what you've stated should be a sticky.
You mentioned investing 102, I'll be sure to read it.
I'm already looking into getting autobody/mechanical estimates from local shops. Found some that'll do it for free, but from your wise words I now find them all suspicious. I'll do the checks as you mentioned.

Originally Posted by FETorino

The fact that you think the engine and misc will be less than the interior shows you are walking into a wall.

Project managing a complete restoration with no real knowledge is a recipe for disaster. I see you trying to talk yourself and all of us into paying to much for that 71 but if you do you will regret it.

Yeah, I'm starting to feel that "wall" headache creeping in. Awesome list of items I can use to grind him down if I go that way. Thank you.
You're right, I do seem to be talking myself into it. But there's a long story attached to why I have such a strong desire for a 71 Bird, but I won't go there.

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

Beware of clean white cars. Make sure you have it inspected by a pro. Spend a few bucks.
I still like the Silver car better. But im a glutton for punishment.

Can't put my finger on it but yes, the Silver one just appeals so much more to me.


Thank you all for your wise advice, please keep it coming. It's all incredibly logical and intelligent and I hope to take it vs...listening to the little head if you get my drift.

[BBBluey]

Originally Posted by FETorino

Go grind this guy down a few grand

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/4547472255.html

Or keep saving your dough.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Fire...US_Cars_Trucks

Notice the white San Diego Bird says looks good for it's age? That means it'll still need body/paint + wheels. I can live with brown carpet and the motor did look nice but by the time I'm done with it, if I can get it for 15k, it'll still be ~20Gs and not as nice as the Formula for the same money I think, but what do I know? That's why I'm listening to all of your advice/experience.

The 72 Bird is very nice but I really don't want to spend that much on a car I intend to drive and not keep as an investment/garage trophy. However, maybe in the long run it pays out. But I also think that as I save up, these cars just get more expensive so... that's why I think Vince is on point and this is a 71 Formula (Birth yr)

I did find this one and it's going for ~ the same money everyone is telling me to offer for the Formula. I don't think it's near the same/as good as condition as the Formula so is the asking price correct? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Fire...US_Cars_Trucks

[BBBluey]

While we're at it, can anyone look at/inspect the car for me in San Diego?
I've been going off pics as well, I have lots of them but still only pics.

As far as grinding the guy down on price, would it be wrong for me to ask if I can take it to get an estimate from a local body shop? Is that unusual or does it work against me?

[Vegas69]

Save your money until you can afford a nice, drivable car. That thing is a can of worms.