Ridetech four link vs speed tech torque arm rear suspension

[Sieg]

Sounds like the driveline angles may have been off? First I've heard of one breaking. What's hard to know with anyones components is the integrity of the installation.

[chetly]

Mike Maier is running a tourqe arm in the 66 coupe and that has a nascar motor, Rob from No Limit is running a torque arm and has a pretty stout LS motor. I've never seen either if them break. I've driven Mikes coupe and it puts the power down pretty hard. Like middle of second gear flat on the floor hard.


Triangulated 4 link, same thing as a chevelle has underneath it.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Sounds like the driveline angles may have been off? First I've heard of one breaking. What's hard to know with anyones components is the integrity of the installation.

EGG SACK LEE!!


Who knows what the cause was -- and the noise and vibration issues should be the first clue that the install was probably not quite up to snuff. It's amazing what people with jack stands and a MIG welder will do to a car.


To answer the OP question ---- I would think that it all depends.... depends on what you want to do with the car - you budget - future mods... tire sizes that can be used etc. And the best place to find those answers would be with the manufacture directly.

BTW - Mary Pozzi never seemed to have a problem winning a few Auto X's with her old leaf spring car... and I know a few people that would love to be able to keep up with my leaf spring car on a road course... Having said that... I'd switch to a 3 link if it was actually going to gain me some lap time... and that's doubtful and would cost more than it's worth perhaps.

The other thing the OP should do -- is to engage Ron Sutton Race Technologies (meaning agree to pay him) and then have Ron figure out with MATH and RACE SMARTS which one would be suitable for the goal.

[31069ss]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

EGG SACK LEE!!


Who knows what the cause was -- and the noise and vibration issues should be the first clue that the install was probably not quite up to snuff. It's amazing what people with jack stands and a MIG welder will do to a car.


To answer the OP question ---- I would think that it all depends.... depends on what you want to do with the car - you budget - future mods... tire sizes that can be used etc. And the best place to find those answers would be with the manufacture directly.

BTW - Mary Pozzi never seemed to have a problem winning a few Auto X's with her old leaf spring car... and I know a few people that would love to be able to keep up with my leaf spring car on a road course... Having said that... I'd switch to a 3 link if it was actually going to gain me some lap time... and that's doubtful and would cost more than it's worth perhaps.

The other thing the OP should do -- is to engage Ron Sutton Race Technologies (meaning agree to pay him) and then have Ron figure out with MATH and RACE SMARTS which one would be suitable for the goal.

The car will see some track time but mostly all street time

[DBasher]

Ron I'm sure we are talking about the same car. I didn't want to mention the shop name or the company of the TA because I only had part of the information.

So if properly set up, are they silky smooth? No more or less vibration and noise transmitted up under the driver?

[Sieg]

There's something to be said for long arms IMO.





Back in my dirt track crew days in the early 80's using the long Chevy pickup control arms in the rear was very effective.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by DBasher

Ron I'm sure we are talking about the same car. I didn't want to mention the shop name or the company of the TA because I only had part of the information.

So if properly set up, are they silky smooth? No more or less vibration and noise transmitted up under the driver?

In most cases the type of rear suspension doesn't have any effect on NVH (Nosise/Vibration/Harshness). NVH comes from a LOT of different sources, from front control arm bushings, motor & trans mounts, steering, etc. The NVH that comes from rear suspensions is more of a function of the rod ends, joints or bushing type chosen. There are exceptions.

Leaf springs have a lot of harmonic noise going on, because they are doing three jobs ... rear axle side control, suspension link & spring. When driven hard, they "can" create some ugly harmonics that are counter productive to smoothness & grip. But during street cruising those loads are there.

Torque Arms that mount to the trans mount "may" or "may not" transmit some of the transmission/driveshaft NVH through the car. But that depends on the mounting method.

Otherwise 3-links, 4-links, Torque Arms, etc are going to be similar in NVH. I believe the decision for each car owner ... is where do your priorities lie. If the car is more of a driver/crusier ... a variety of non-metal bushings will offer less NVH. If the car is meant to be a serious performer, zero friction rod ends & monoballs will allow the suspension to much quicker reacting & produces substantially more grip. It is a compromise either way & a choice for each car guy/gal to make for themselves.

Don't confuse NVH with ride quality or handling/grip. Ride quality is primarily influenced by spring rate, sway bar rate & shock vavling ... and secondarily by suspension bushings.

Someone read my Track Handling Thread & thought I wasn't a fan of Torque Arms ... which is not exactly accurate. Because I'm a racer, tuner & looking for every edge ... I run offset 3-links in race & track cars whenever possible. Frankly, decoupled/offset 3-links if I can. This is the fastest, most tunable rear suspension.

But for multi-purpose cars, street G-machines, true Pro-Touring cars that will be street driven a lot, the Torque Arm is a great rear suspension choice. You don't have to cut up the rear floor. You can keep your rear seat. Most designs put the pick up point 45-50"+/- ahead of the rear axle CL. As mentioned above, that puts the pick up point far enough ahead to avoid problems from too much anti-squat. All in all, a great performing rear suspension.

Make sense?

[DBasher]

Ron, every time you post something it makes sense! Greg can vouch for me when I say I don't know anything.

The owner of the busted TA knew he had some wheel hop issues, it sounded like he was trying some different things to get it taken care of before it broke. I didn't look to see what kind of bushings/mounts he had, just know he made mention of not the ride quality, but the noise/vibration after the change from leaf springs.

To the OP, I'm running leafs and a panhard bar with adjustable shocks. Part of this decision was cost, the other major part was that I don't have an understanding of how to properly tune other combos.

Dan

[Rick D]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Sounds like the driveline angles may have been off? First I've heard of one breaking. What's hard to know with anyones components is the integrity of the installation.

^^^What Sieg said, there are quite a few running the TA setups on here and I haven't heard of that. Most likely it was installed incorrectly?? Remember the TA arm is nothing new, GM has been running it for years!!

As for which setup to go with, both have pros and cons, pros both are proven on the track ALOT, depending on budget that could be a con, the TA setup cost more then the RideTech setup. Packaging is another thing to think about?? Both require some welding skills or you have to have it welded.

If I change out my leafs I think I'm going with the RideTech setup, or I will make my own 4 link Vince???

[Ron Sutton]

If this is the broken Torque Arm situation that I'm aware of ... there is more involved. The one I'm aware of had rear wheel hop issues going into the corners. Torque arms don't cause that. Just the opposite, as "most" torque arms place the pick up point out 50"+/- ... which will lower the anti-squat % & help reduce wheel hop.

Wheel hop is typically caused by one of these things:
A. Too soft of rear springs ... insufficient force to hold the rear wheels down.

B. Too soft of shock valving ... insufficient control to hold the rear wheels down.

C. Too stiff of rear springs ... combined with too soft of shock valving ... running over bumps or irregular surfaces.
* Stiff spring impacting bumps causes the hop ... and the shock with too soft of valving can't stop it.

D. Too much anti-squat (too short of an Instant Center) ... causing the car to be loose under braking. Rear wheel hop is the stage just before "loose entry".
* Too much rear brake bias can compound the problem, but doesn't cause wheel hop by itself.

E. Driver down shifting too early and/or letting the clutch out too early (before engine RPM's match the speed of car).

None of those are caused by running a Torque Arm suspension ... but continuous rear wheel hop ... can break almost any rear suspension. So in this case ... if it is the one I'm aware of ... the wheel hop most likely broke the Torque Arm. As most likely, as the Torque Arm was breaking, the hop got worse.