Discussion about the actual resale value of a Pro-touring car

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by ArisESQ

I think that car is a good representation of something that is "too custom" for most people. I'd be willing to be that it would have fetched more in relation to it's build cost if it looked mostly stock, or "OEM," like Steilow's cars.

I think the other thing that's going to bring in a consistently higher selling price is uniformity in the build. By that I mean that the builder has built more than one similar car, and has "sorted out" the problem areas. I suspect that most buyers of high end cars would feel a lot more comfortable spending a large sum of money when they see a builder can "manufacturer" a small volume of vehicles that meet a uniform standard of quality.

By the way - I am in no way suggesting that the Firebird in that link is not a high quality build. I can tell that a lot of effort went into making a beautiful car... I just think it's too specifically built to appeal to a broad market.

Compare that Firebird above with the Year One Burt Reynolds Edition
Buyers seem to be willing to pay more when they can buy a turn key car as a package, without having to worry about all the details associated with customizing the build - especially when they know other people are buying a similarly built car. I think it just comes down to perceived reliability.

So like I said before - I think if someone could figure out how to assembly line a first or second gen with minitubs, an LS3, AC, disc brakes, decent wheels, and a nicely upgraded leather interior that looks relatively OEM, I think they'd be able to command a higher price than what most of the customs have been going for at Barrett Jackson.

Mike puts out a lot of ready to build bodies. Not sure how fast they move though.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=47315

Similar to the adopt a project I have at the shop. But the body and title cost depends on how much was spent on the rehab to get it to a straight rust free body. The customer then has the choice have us build it or bring it home for a garage project.

We also locate cars for clients.

[tazzz2_ca]

The whole idea of selling a highly modified Pro-touring at auction is surely a questionable deal.. Outside of certain custom builders that bring a providence to the build immediately, the average person selling one of these cars in that format is setting himself up for failure... The auction houses make their money moving the maximum amount of nice cars through the block and can't take the time to really describe and as been stated educate the consumer on what they are buying...

It would appear the market is settled into the 30-45 range, the 55-75 range and the boutique truly custom build group that varies dramatically... Like all other forms of cars sales the market becomes small as you grow the costs. We all fall in love with the high end stuff because face it we're car buffs or we wouldn't be reading this..

As far as augmenting revenues, tough call and certainly on a car by bassis to say the least... I feel there is a possible new area that may offer opportunity and that is selling rollers that require the new owner to select the rims, and having them deal with basic interior install and pre-thought out wiring options (ie an American auto wire setup with pre anticipated Auto Meter gauges.. pick your own style from their offering but the harness and gauges are basically plug and play).. This will allow buyers the ability to stagger their spending, do some of the labor and end up with a nice car to their taste in the end...

[ModernMuseum]

Originally Posted by hp2

If I can buy a new ZL1 for $55k that does all these things, comes with a factory warranty, and can be serviced at any Chevy dealer anywhere, it would take one helluva nice 1st gen to beat the performance per dollar spent equation. What is the nostalgia of the 1st gen body worth over a late model? $10k, $20k, double the new price? If your selling a classic for more than a late model, you have already significantly narrowed your potential market, regardless of the options and performance involved.

ZL-1's are lame.

69 Camaros are awesome.

End of story

[Sheck44]

Originally Posted by ModernMuseum

ZL-1's are lame.

69 Camaros are awesome.

End of story

WELL SAID !! and ...
ZL1 $55K today ... worth $40K tomorrow
Well executed PT 69 camaro $$$ today = $$$ same tomorrow ...

[Rick D]

Originally Posted by tazzz2_ca

As far as augmenting revenues, tough call and certainly on a car by bassis to say the least... I feel there is a possible new area that may offer opportunity and that is selling rollers that require the new owner to select the rims, and having them deal with basic interior install and pre-thought out wiring options (ie an American auto wire setup with pre anticipated Auto Meter gauges.. pick your own style from their offering but the harness and gauges are basically plug and play).. This will allow buyers the ability to stagger their spending, do some of the labor and end up with a nice car to their taste in the end...

I've looked at doing this in the past and I agree Albert there is a market for this but its a hard market.

I biggest issue I found was the masses don't really know what it really cost just for "new" sheet metal let alone the cost to install it. I've done body work on cars for 10k with no special fab work, I've done paint jobs for 20K on clean cars with minimal body work. I've done quicky paint and body for 5K (not in years at that price )

I had a friend ask me the other day what I thought of a 69 Camaro on flebay and I almost fell out of my chair, total junk needing EVERY panel replaced and was mostly a shell. No glass, no trim to speak of nothing but a shell! The bidding was at 5K with a couple of days to go.

Now yes I know its a 69 Camaro, and it will bring more money then most any other car like it but when you compare a 69 Chevelle that is mostly complete glass is there, trim is there, the small stuff that adds up fast. It need most likely new fenders and qtrs, and? It sells for 4K, it's hard to see that 69 Chevelle finished as a painted roller, and sell for??? The qtrs still have to be bought and installed, they still need the same amount of work to get them to fit as the Camaro. But the Camaro will sell way faster and bring 20-30% more but still needs 20-30% more to finish it?

Its tough but the only ones I see making any money are the "flipers" on these cars. sorry I know we all hate the flipper but thats where the money is, fix a few things, a patch here a new set of shinny wheels and bam you have 3-5K profit. Not a bad days work.

Thats the other thing that makes drives me crazy, when did "profit" become such a dirty word?? It's crazy but some guys think "WOW"I'm going to make some money on what I do for them

Thoughts??

[BMR Sales]

Profit has gotten a Bad Name - people forget that if companies don't make a Profit, they go out of Business.

Flippers get a Bad rep too. I flip a car or 2 a year. Sometimes it takes months of work on a car before it even is listed For sale. Then you have to deal with the Idiot potential Buyers

[preston]

Another factor that hasn't been brought up - let's face it, for a large majority of people that like these cars, the build is most of the fun. Dreaming about what it will look like, picking out parts, making choices. That's why you see these massive 3-5 year projects taht get sold 1 year later, the owner wants to "build" something else. I don't have any insight into the market, but I think the posts above might be on to something - prepping shells and rollers that a normal guy can then take home and build into something. That is the hardest part of the project, getting the initial car and dealing with all the bornig (and specialized skill and tool) stuff like replacing rust and panels. I think a lot of car guys would love to build an old car if they only had to deal with wiring, engine setup, wheels, suspensino bolt ons and stuff.

But I still don't think there is a lot of money to be made there. Look at the body advertised above - $24k for a roller. That's gonna always seem like a big step in price.

[69hugger]

But then you have "experienced" (older) guys like me that have fiddled with cars for years, but have always been too thrifty for anything "really nice".
I had a pretty nice '69 Camaro for 17 years, big block/ nitrous, etc... a mid 11 second streeter. But I got bored because it had a 40 mile radius of comfortable driving. I didn't like to sit at shows all weekend, and what else do you do with it? So I sold it & bought a C-6 Z-06. Fun car, but really pretty boring too. It was fast, but didn't FEEL fast. Got tired of the various expenses (License fees, insurance, & depreciation) of owning that type of car & not driving it much. And it wasn't welcome at most shows & cruises. So I sold that too.
I decided a needed a comfortable old muscle car. Wasn't interested in spending 2 or 3 years building my own, so I went looking at Barrett-Jackson. I looked at quite a few cars, & every one was not quite right. Then I saw the car I bought & just had to have it. I spent a pretty penny, but got a car that would cost close to twice to build as what I spent. It was exactly to my taste, and had all kinds of jewelry, stuff I would never spend the money for. (i.e. $500 hood hinges-- are you kidding me?) It was built largely at DSE, and I figured that provenance was worth some extra dough.
So, I got a car I think is pretty great, got it immediately, and couldn't duplicate for what I spent.
Some of us don't have the patience, discipline, vision, or talent to build a high end car ourselves. But I CAN maintain, update, and enjoy the heck out of it. And in another year or so, it will FEEL like my own car.
Just my story, but I don't think I'm the only one.

[ErikLS2]

I'm not a buyer, just found this surfing, curious what you guys think this thing really is worth? And "Pro Touring"? With SBC, leafs and drum brakes, really?

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/4728786080.html

[ArisESQ]

Originally Posted by ErikLS2

I'm not a buyer, just found this surfing, curious what you guys think this thing really is worth? And "Pro Touring"? With SBC, leafs and drum brakes, really?

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/4728786080.html

You forgot to mention the NASCAR LOOKING ENGINE.

Sounds like it could be an OK car. Definitely not worth that much money though... I guess most people just assume pro-touring = lowered with 17" wheels.