Hello everyone have a dilemma and need some help!
I took my vehicle out of state to have a few things buttoned up that I did not have time to complete myself! I met with the shop owner and we went over what I needed complete and told him what my budget was. We agreed on monthly statements and was told I could access the build progress on line. I was also told he was going to send me a list of things we had discussed.
Well, one month went by, I called and asked about progress and an invoice, I was sent a few pictures in a text and was told they didn't really work on the car much to produce an invoice. The next few months I tried to meet up with him but he was either busy or out of town racing and couldn't really get together. Had him do a mock up for a part he needed me to purchase. We kept in touch over the months a few questions on my overall plan for the car questions about items I need to order. Six months later I finally receive six invoices all at once, And around 116 progress photos. And also a bill for almost double my budget without any one item fully complete. And over 2/3 of the invoices were labor charges. Up until now I have not paid any amount of money.
Now when I talked to the shop Owner and tried to ask why I was being charged an hourly rate instead of my budget. I was told that he does not remember talking about a "budget". And was also informed that a new shop manager was brought on and that I should talk to him. So I called the shop manager and he was told to send out the invoices and that he really knew nothing about the agreement I had with the shop owner. This is why I wanted monthly invoices as to what was complete. After looking over the invoices I just got , I noticed that 2 months after the initial meeting I had already burned through 2/3 of my budget. I still had 4 more invoices to look at. I need ADVICE where did I go wrong? What's next? How can I get my car back?
__________________
Tim
Last edited by Grnova; 10-23-2014 at 10:03 PM.
Reason: Added information
I would start gathering all the documentation you have and contact an attorney. If there is no written agreement or estimate then he doesn't have any proof that you agreed to allow work to be started on the car and you may be able to pull it from the shop without paying. You will have to check with local law enforcement on that one. The last thing you want is to be in a battle with a place like that and have your car trapped there.
Where you went wrong was not getting everything in a written agreement that was reviewed by an attorney. It would be great if we cold trust everyone these days, but there are just to many scammers out there. It's really messed up, because it ruins things for the good people and shops.
Sorry I don't have any solid advice to offer you. Good luck.
__________________ Curtis
Pilots: We're not better than you, just way cooler.
Some guys just have terrible luck ... It's a shame that I consider myself 'lucky' to have not suffered the same fate as some of the folks here, and a buddy of mine ...
He just paid $8,000 to have a BBC built by a 'reputable' shop here in Toronto, and promised 700 crank HP. 1st problem, WRONG timing cover left a gap so the filled it with silicone so it blew on his drive home and near emptied the engine of oil. Their response ... fill it with more silicone. 2nd problem, gets it on the dyno only to put down 375 hp at the wheels ... then scoped the the pistons to find out they were flat top and running at 8.5:1 CR ... REALLY ??
WTF is going on these day ????? It makes me sick to my stomach that guys are getting away with this sh$%&%t !!
My advice to you is pay the invoices and pull the car. Once you get lawyers involved you will likely only increase your losses. Next time a formal contract would be good idea.
Make sure to leave feedback on the forums after you get the car back.
My advice to you is pay the invoices and pull the car. Once you get lawyers involved you will likely only increase your losses. Next time a formal contract would be good idea.
Make sure to leave feedback on the forums after you get the car back.
Don
^^ I agree. Pay the bill asap and get your car out of there asap! Also send them an email & call them to make it very clear you no longer approve any work on the car, otherwise you will end up with another invoice.
I would start gathering all the documentation you have and contact an attorney. If there is no written agreement or estimate then he doesn't have any proof that you agreed to allow work to be started on the car and you may be able to pull it from the shop without paying. You will have to check with local law enforcement on that one. The last thing you want is to be in a battle with a place like that and have your car trapped there.
Where you went wrong was not getting everything in a written agreement that was reviewed by an attorney. It would be great if we cold trust everyone these days, but there are just to many scammers out there. It's really messed up, because it ruins things for the good people and shops.
Sorry I don't have any solid advice to offer you. Good luck.
I have documented everything and went back and gathered all emails between us. There is no agreement sent from him and I have not paid him yet. I don't think he is scamming I think with the changes that went on in his shop things were not conveyed to the new shop manager. Which I feel is not my fault. Thanks for your response.
So you sent your car there to be worked on and never paid any money? No deposit?
Did you atleast sign an electronic repair order? Agree to prices via email? Text?
Correct I never paid any Money because our agreement was to pay monthly with the invoices they were suppose to supply. No money was put down. I did not sign an electronic repair order either. No agreeiment was put into an email or text. That is what I was asking for after we meet and nothing was forthcoming.
Tim,
First send them a certified letter to cease and desist TODAY any work going forward!!
This will stop any more being performed on your car, or at least then they can't invoice you for more work after that date.
Next after they recieve the letter call or email the "owner" and ask for a formal meeting to discuss the issue. Not sure what the state laws are where it's at but I would get VERY good at their laws.
Now write up exactly what was talked about during you talks about what was to be done and costs. Most likely it's a misunderstanding and you justp need to talk it out face to face.
Also try to keep it very professional when talking to him; he has your car so the last thing you want todo is make it personal on his side! I knows it's personal on your side but it's not on his, it's just business to him.
Lastly if he's just out to make a buck then most likely (as stated above) you will have to pay for what was finished on your car to get it back. Sucks I know but it's a he said she said at this point unless you have anything in writing, email, or text to prove your side.
Also when going to talk with him bring a third party with, a friend, expert in the field??? So you have someone to help inspect the work performed and someone to be a witness!
One last thing is don't tell him your going to sue him or take him to court as this will only make it personal and most likely you will have to pay for the lawer and possibly his lawer when he counter sues you as he most likely will. I know I would!!
One more last thing; if the shop is in IL this is a good thing as our court system is almost always on the side of the car owner as they you look at you as the little guy and the shop as the big bad business!!
I think with every situation there are 3 sides to every story. Your side, his side and reality. In a business transaction like this your trying to communicate what you want done for a ballpark price and at a rate equal to your budget. Everyone has a different way to perform a job. Each way can be right but just go about doing it differently. But one way might take more time then another.
It does not sound like your mad about the quality, your just mad that they are going faster then the budgeted amount you want to spend monthly. I will tell you monthly budget cars can be tough. The projects are start and stop and no one likes that kind of a work pace. Its not good for shop a shop owner as the car might sit more per month then it is being worked on in his shop and that is bad for business. That is lost revenue for the shop owner. In those instances I try to work on he car in longer phases. I have one customer that we do his 2 month budget money every two months. You get more work done and its not a start and stop situation. But I would never do that deal for anybody but that customer as he knows and respects how big much trouble it is for me.
Plus it seems that if he did not work on the car for the first few months your were not saving your money during that period. Well that's not really fair on your part. If you don't have the money up front to pay the bill whats the hurry to get it done?
Example - if you have 6 weeks of work to get done and you want to only spend 1 weeks of labor money per month to get it done. 1. Why bring it when you dont have a good chunk of the money up front? 2. Whats the big hurry to get started on the work if you can't pay for it when the shop owner completes the work?
Seems to me the shop owner should have told you to save you money for 4 months and bring the car back in 4 months and you could just pay him every Friday to take his time and when the project is done you pay the bill when the work is done. If the time frame was similar to the example above.
As has been said her many times, there is no amount of planning you can do to know exactly what a car is going to cost you before you start construction. The government spends millions to design Air craft carrier and bridges all the time that go WAY WAY WAY over budget. And that is really something that has very few OPTIONS and new latest greatest parts. I mean how much new fancy crap can you get for a bridge?
Heck can anyone even go to the buffet and put the right amount of food they want to eat on their plate the first time? I always get to much and can't finish my 2nd plate but I sure thought I could when I was filling up my plate.
If you have no quality concern issues, you need to say to the guy this is all I can spend each month, and I need to understand why things are costing my more money then I thought. I encourage customers to ask any and all questions. Building these cars to the levels we are is not science. What fits one car may not fit on another and just because you bought the best parts available on the market does not mean its going to fit and work with your car build and hammered on for 40 years like it did some one else's car.
Brian Hobaugh SCCA National Tour June 2014
First Hemi 'Cuda Convertible Ever Built
Short clips: Goodguys Pleasanton autocross and pit videos
Shop situation??? Advice please.
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