What would a USCA pro-touring class look like??

[Che70velle]

Originally Posted by Stielow

The only reason I mentioned stock floor pans was to keep cost down. If there is a min. weight that would work.

I like pre-1989.

I don't want to kill myself to build a cool old car and go run against late model vehicles.

I do see a great opportunity to make one set of rules that could work with Goodguys, SCCA and OUSCI. If OUSCI wants one overall winner that is fine. Just make a class for the old cars or give the old cars more style or engineering points.

Mark

Mark says it best. He doesn't want to kill himself to build a cool old car, and then be forced to go run against late model vehicles with numerous advantages, out of the box.

This is what will eventually thin the competitors.
This is what will eventually thin the spectators.
Sponsors won't stick around...
This is why classes AND rules are necessary. We have a great thing going here, it simply needs tweaking.

[GrabberGT]

Originally Posted by Che70velle

Mark says it best. He doesn't want to kill himself to build a cool old car, and then be forced to go run against late model vehicles with numerous advantages, out of the box.

This is what will eventually thin the competitors.
This is what will eventually thin the spectators.
Sponsors won't stick around...
This is why classes AND rules are necessary. We have a great thing going here, it simply needs tweaking.

I agree with this mindset and add the street driving pre and post racing segments to prove its intent as a street car. Maybe as someone stated earlier, have a judge go for a parade lap in the car during the weigh-in process and rate the overall quality of the ride, access, NVH, and comfort of the car. If they have to climb over door bars to fit into a kirky race seat then it obviously will not score as high as someone with buckets and 3-point retractable belts. Adjust the S&D points to have more weight. As stated already, there is no reason a full on race car should be within 3 points of a Ridler winner.

[Ron in SoCal]

I don't disagree with your post above Chris, but I would not want to see an incentive for 3 point belts. The road course speeds are a bit hairy.

Keep going fellas. I love the discussion.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by GrabberGT

I agree with this mindset and add the street driving pre and post racing segments to prove its intent as a street car. Maybe as someone stated earlier, have a judge go for a parade lap in the car during the weigh-in process and rate the overall quality of the ride, access, NVH, and comfort of the car. If they have to climb over door bars to fit into a kirky race seat then it obviously will not score as high as someone with buckets and 3-point retractable belts. Adjust the S&D points to have more weight. As stated already, there is no reason a full on race car should be within 3 points of a Ridler winner.

Interesting points.

Being fortunate to ride in Hellfire from the strip out to the track on two different nights in average Vegas traffic what impressed me more than the shear power was how docile, quiet, and comfortable the car was.

I wouldn't think twice about taking on Power Tour or a Good Guys tour. As remarkable as the thermal engineering is considering power output, the engineering/effort that went into daily drivability is very impressive.

Ease of access, seating comfort, roll cage clearance, exterior visibility, gauge data and visibility, convenience lighting, storage space, ride comfort, clutch engagement, power delivery, low interior/exterior decibel levels, no detectable rattles, generous ground clearance, and it tracks dead straight.

I'm disappointed that I didn't take video on of one of the trips that would have shown people how docile a Street Car Hellfire really is.

One interesting qualifier for street car designation would be how would the average neighbor feel about hearing the car start and warm up at 6-7 am? Based on my observation less than 30% of the cars in the OUSCI pits would make for happy neighbors.

[LS7 Z/28]

Originally Posted by Sieg

One interesting qualifier for street car designation would be how would the average neighbor feel about hearing the car start and warm up at 6-7 am? Based on my observation less than 30% of the cars in the OUSCI pits would make for happy neighbors.

You like to hear that badass rumble just as much as the next guy does, don't give me that crap about yuppie neighbors being pissed off!


They may be "Street Cars" but that doesn't mean they have to have the exhaust note of a Prius.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Valve Lash

You like to hear that badass rumble just as much as the next guy does, don't give me that crap about yuppie neighbors being pissed off!


They may be "Street Cars" but that doesn't mean they have to have the exhaust note of a Prius.

You got that right...

"If it's too loud, you're too old!"

[71RS/SS396]

I personally don't like the idea of docking cars points for rollbars that are difficult to climb over, or seats that are difficult to get in. These items are safety related imho, these cars are to damn fast now to not have these things on a road course. I'm at the point with mine now where I'm backing out of the throttle down the straights at tracks like Vir because it badly needs aero to be safe at the speeds it's capable of.

[LS7 Z/28]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

I personally don't like the idea of docking cars points for rollbars that are difficult to climb over, or seats that are difficult to get in. These items are safety related imho, these cars are to damn fast now to not have these things on a road course. I'm at the point with mine now where I'm backing out of the throttle down the straights at tracks like Vir because it badly needs aero to be safe at the speeds it's capable of.

I agree with you 100%

I don't understand when people say things like "if you have race seats and door bars to climb over then you should lose points in the judging portion"

I think the people who don't have at least a 4 point cage, harnesses and safer than stock seats properly installed; should be the ones who lose points for endangering themselves, sort of like a cop writing you a ticket for not wearing your belt.

There are definitely ways to integrate safety equipment into your car and keep the street functionality of it. There should be no excuses.

I can't believe people run the speed they do on the roadcourse and then justify the fact that they don't have those safety items in their car by saying things like "well my car is a street car and I use it a lot so I don't want a roll cage, harnesses and race seats"

Well, if you're attending events like the USCA puts on then you are using it for much more than just street driving. Whether it's cost, lack of understanding or just a mentality that a person wants to keep their car a "street car" I just don't understand how someone can justify putting themselves at risk.

[James OLC]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

I personally don't like the idea of docking cars points for rollbars that are difficult to climb over, or seats that are difficult to get in. These items are safety related imho, these cars are to damn fast now to not have these things on a road course. I'm at the point with mine now where I'm backing out of the throttle down the straights at tracks like Vir because it badly needs aero to be safe at the speeds it's capable of.

That is possible one of the most important contributions to this conversation. Nothing will hurt the series more than penalizing competitors for safety in order to satisfy spectators desire to prove how much of a street car these are.

At the end of the day we are out there driving running in these events because we want to - not because we have to - and we are pushing our cars, and ourselves, to satisfy our own desire to challenge ourselves and enjoy our car. Folks are not going to go that if they do not feel safe. There was a fair bit of talk at SEMA about the need for MORE safety equipment in the faster cars and how to ensure that we can all have fun, put on a good show, and be safe. For non-competitors to suggest that faster (or any) drivers should somehow put themselves at risk to be more "stock" is unrealistic and unfair.

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by James OLC

That is possible one of the most important contributions to this conversation. Nothing will hurt the series more than penalizing competitors for safety in order to satisfy spectators desire to prove how much of a street car these are.

At the end of the day we are out there driving running in these events because we want to - not because we have to - and we are pushing our cars, and ourselves, to satisfy our own desire to challenge ourselves and enjoy our car. Folks are not going to go that if they do not feel safe. There was a fair bit of talk at SEMA about the need for MORE safety equipment in the faster cars and how to ensure that we can all have fun, put on a good show, and be safe. For non-competitors to suggest that faster (or any) drivers should somehow put themselves at risk to be more "stock" is unrealistic and unfair.

I agree James, it seems to be the big elephant in the room and a line nobody wants to step over. Cages should be REQUIRED to run in the faster class. Most of, if not all (mine included) of the cars do not have enough cage in them to be safe considering how heavy these cars are and the speeds they're capable of.
I know it will probably get into a whole bunch of legal liabilities with certification.... etc, but I'm sure there will be a lawsuit if someone is injured badly or god forbid someone dies in a crash.
I don't care how good the driver is, things can happen on the track that you can't control. I had a guy in a Ferrari blow an engine right in front of me at corner 10 exit at Vir in the spring, I drove through oil at probably well over 100 mph and went off sideways through the grass, it could have been very bad had the ground been soft and the tires dug in.