What would a USCA pro-touring class look like??

[James OLC]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

I personally don't like the idea of docking cars points for rollbars that are difficult to climb over, or seats that are difficult to get in. These items are safety related imho, these cars are to damn fast now to not have these things on a road course. I'm at the point with mine now where I'm backing out of the throttle down the straights at tracks like Vir because it badly needs aero to be safe at the speeds it's capable of.

That is possible one of the most important contributions to this conversation. Nothing will hurt the series more than penalizing competitors for safety in order to satisfy spectators desire to prove how much of a street car these are.

At the end of the day we are out there driving running in these events because we want to - not because we have to - and we are pushing our cars, and ourselves, to satisfy our own desire to challenge ourselves and enjoy our car. Folks are not going to go that if they do not feel safe. There was a fair bit of talk at SEMA about the need for MORE safety equipment in the faster cars and how to ensure that we can all have fun, put on a good show, and be safe. For non-competitors to suggest that faster (or any) drivers should somehow put themselves at risk to be more "stock" is unrealistic and unfair.

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift

......then that was a poor choice in which smiley to use.

Maybe they should use Ron's "meter" for the judging portion......

Lol! you're probably right

[GregWeld]

I'm sorry -- but I get a chuckle out of the posts that suggest "the series will go away"....


People are racing to get in! AND they just DOUBLED the field to 100 from 50... This show was the biggest baddest show since the inception... with more sponsors and double the amount of competitors. So where does this idea come from that says if they don't change they won'd survive? WTF? Because "one of our guys" didn't win... the entire thing is a flop? LOL

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by camcojb

The 2014 USCA Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational was awesome. Had a great time, and if you have a chance you really need to attend these events.

In the finals it's "run what you brung"; no classes for individual cars.But what would a pro-touring class look like if there were classes for competitors? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

It would look just like HellFire
Caged without being race car caged - stereo - big brakes - big motor - big G's.... and drive it from LA to Tampa and be happy doing it. LOL THAT is "Pro Touring".

[onevoice]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

.

I can't think of any competition sanctioning body that has achieved long term success & staying power without multiple classes/divisions.

A.[/B] After the novelty wears off of "just being able to participate" ... entrants that are way out of their league ... performance wise ... fall away.

D. Having multiple classes or divisions allows a larger number of potential entrants to participate with others in performance ranges closer to their levels of talent, budget & car capabilities. ...

E. The sub-classes help pay for the show. There are WAY more people who can compete at a lower level ... and they want to compete in the cool event … provided there is a place they fit in well. ... Plus, these are the guys that actually buy parts from the sponsors & displaying vendors, .
.

Ron wrote the answer a couple pages ago, and it wouldn't be that hard to implement. After all is said and done, have a unlimited class, and several logical classes under it. That approach has worked great for the Hot Rod drag week competition. Their event sells out in a matter of minutes with over 300 cars attending. Spectators turn out at all the tracks, and the event is live broadcast on the net. Forget all the discussion about what makes a "streetable car" and go with the qualifier of if someone is willing to drive the damn thing on the street and it is legal, then it is OK for unlimited. If someone wants to build a silhouette 69 camaro with a F1 chassis under the bodywork, and is willing to drive it on the street, go for it. Everyone has a different personal version of what is streetable, and in the Hot Rod world there are guys willing to drive 1000 + miles in a week in a ProMod car with a funny car style cage, more power to them. Everyone loves the unlimited cars and their low 6 second 220+mph runs but there is also plenty of room for the average guy in a backyard built car running the daily driver class and everyone in between.

Throw the whole BS judging points out the window, this isn't figure skating. There is nothing gained from it.

You are never going to stop the advancement of technology, and there will always be someone with more money to spend. Embrace it and enjoy the ride.

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by James OLC

That is possible one of the most important contributions to this conversation. Nothing will hurt the series more than penalizing competitors for safety in order to satisfy spectators desire to prove how much of a street car these are.

At the end of the day we are out there driving running in these events because we want to - not because we have to - and we are pushing our cars, and ourselves, to satisfy our own desire to challenge ourselves and enjoy our car. Folks are not going to go that if they do not feel safe. There was a fair bit of talk at SEMA about the need for MORE safety equipment in the faster cars and how to ensure that we can all have fun, put on a good show, and be safe. For non-competitors to suggest that faster (or any) drivers should somehow put themselves at risk to be more "stock" is unrealistic and unfair.

I agree James, it seems to be the big elephant in the room and a line nobody wants to step over. Cages should be REQUIRED to run in the faster class. Most of, if not all (mine included) of the cars do not have enough cage in them to be safe considering how heavy these cars are and the speeds they're capable of.
I know it will probably get into a whole bunch of legal liabilities with certification.... etc, but I'm sure there will be a lawsuit if someone is injured badly or god forbid someone dies in a crash.
I don't care how good the driver is, things can happen on the track that you can't control. I had a guy in a Ferrari blow an engine right in front of me at corner 10 exit at Vir in the spring, I drove through oil at probably well over 100 mph and went off sideways through the grass, it could have been very bad had the ground been soft and the tires dug in.

[Musclerodz]

I just started reading this thread. I'm suprised it took till page 13 for someone to bring up the topic of safety and discuss it. During the USCA days and GG events, the small tracks and slower speeds was not as big of an issue, now we are running big tracks at race car speeds without race car safety in alot of the cars competing. I think everyone has been extremely lucky that nothing catastrophic has happened yet. If is not a matter of "if", its a matter of "when".

[EBMC]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

I agree James, it seems to be the big elephant in the room and a line nobody wants to step over. Cages should be REQUIRED to run in the faster class. Most of, if not all (mine included) of the cars do not have enough cage in them to be safe considering how heavy these cars are and the speeds they're capable of.
I know it will probably get into a whole bunch of legal liabilities with certification.... etc, but I'm sure there will be a lawsuit if someone is injured badly or god forbid someone dies in a crash.
I don't care how good the driver is, things can happen on the track that you can't control. I had a guy in a Ferrari blow an engine right in front of me at corner 10 exit at Vir in the spring, I drove through oil at probably well over 100 mph and went off sideways through the grass, it could have been very bad had the ground been soft and the tires dug in.

This has always been a big concern of mine. A lot of these cars are very high horespower, not set up for track, drivers that arent expeirienced in a " race" environment and may push things too hard because they feel thats what their car and cababilities SHOULD be able to do. Things can go wrong very quick no matter who you are. Its going to have to be addressed.

[GrabberGT]

Originally Posted by James OLC

That is possible one of the most important contributions to this conversation. Nothing will hurt the series more than penalizing competitors for safety in order to satisfy spectators desire to prove how much of a street car these are.

At the end of the day we are out there driving running in these events because we want to - not because we have to - and we are pushing our cars, and ourselves, to satisfy our own desire to challenge ourselves and enjoy our car. Folks are not going to go that if they do not feel safe. There was a fair bit of talk at SEMA about the need for MORE safety equipment in the faster cars and how to ensure that we can all have fun, put on a good show, and be safe. For non-competitors to suggest that faster (or any) drivers should somehow put themselves at risk to be more "stock" is unrealistic and unfair.

"Non-Competitor" here... Im only stating my opinion as others are. My car will never have the style, fit, finish, or speed necessary to be competitive in any aspect of these events no matter what the rules are and Im fine with that. I just like to drive my car and do the best I can with what I have. What I do care about though is to continue seeing our segment thrive in these events. I believe there needs to be a class structure as you and others have defined already. In addition, I believe the streetcar aspects need to be emphasized more.

My thoughts on streetcar judging isnt for a car with safety equipment to be penalized but to provide more criteria to judge a cars true street friendliness. Its "Streetcar" challenge after-all. If you have to climb thru a cage in order to get in and out of a car, have limited visibility due to race seats, and cant effectively check your blind spots due to being harnessed in, then in my opinion it isnt very street friendly.

To address the other concern about going this fast without such safety items. Maybe we shouldn't be. In other organizations, you and your car have to qualify to go "XXX" speeds. Why not here? Can I take my car to Silver State and run 150 right out of the gate? Heck no. Can I run 10's in the 1/4? Nope. Can I run in the fastest group at a NASA event? Nah.

Now having said that, lets look again at the scenario. A street car scoring high in the Streetcar side likely doesnt qualify to do the speeds the more race oriented car can do. (Unless your Steilow and drive a car like Hellfire) Its a points tradeoff. Nobody said the Ultimate Streetcar has to be the absolute fastest.

Just some thoughts

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by GrabberGT

"Non-Competitor" here... Im only stating my opinion as others are. My car will never have the style, fit, finish, or speed necessary to be competitive in any aspect of these events no matter what the rules are and Im fine with that. I just like to drive my car and do the best I can with what I have. What I do care about though is to continue seeing our segment thrive in these events. I believe there needs to be a class structure as you and others have defined already. In addition, I believe the streetcar aspects need to be emphasized more.

My thoughts on streetcar judging isnt for a car with safety equipment to be penalized but to provide more criteria to judge a cars true street friendliness. Its "Streetcar" challenge after-all. If you have to climb thru a cage in order to get in and out of a car, have limited visibility due to race seats, and cant effectively check your blind spots due to being harnessed in, then in my opinion it isnt very street friendly.

To address the other concern about going this fast without such safety items. Maybe we shouldn't be. In other organizations, you and your car have to qualify to go "XXX" speeds. Why not here? Can I take my car to Silver State and run 150 right out of the gate? Heck no. Can I run 10's in the 1/4? Nope. Can I run in the fastest group at a NASA event? Nah.

Now having said that, lets look again at the scenario. A street car scoring high in the Streetcar side likely doesnt qualify to do the speeds the more race oriented car can do. (Unless your Steilow and drive a car like Hellfire) Its a points tradeoff. Nobody said the Ultimate Streetcar has to be the absolute fastest.

Just some thoughts

Chris, have you ever been in a truly fast car on a big road course, not the little infield course we ran at TMS? I'm talking somewhere like Vir or Road America.
I bet if I put a stock seat and a 3 point belt in the passenger side and took out at Vir you wouldn't be able to stay in the seat.