What Is Pro Touring?

[Revved]

When I was redoing my website last year I tried to put a definition to Pro touring... This is what I came up with as a most generic yet encompasing definition...

Pro-touring: A style of building custom vehicles that integrates modern electronics, structural modifications, high performance engines, suspensions, wheels, brakes, and styling with the intention of driving them in conditions ranging from daily street use to high performance competition.

Originally Posted by ragz

Depends on who you are, look in most classified ads,

For sale ,pro-touring , (insert model) , 17" torque thrusts, 350,the rest stock..

I don't think many people outside of these forums really understand what it is. But it does make me chuckle some times.


SM-G900W8, 0x1

I also get a kick out of what some people consider Pro-Touring... 20" wheels on a stock 69 Camaro with stock sized brakes, a lime green paint job, and a set of glass packs.

When the general population outside of the car world asks what I do I either say I restore cars or built racecars... it's just easier that way.

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Epitome-Mark Stielow's builds in their genre. End thread.

The Godfather of Pro-Touring.

[GrabberGT]

Originally Posted by Revved

Pro-touring: A style of building custom vehicles that integrates modern electronics, structural modifications, high performance engines, suspensions, wheels, brakes, and styling with the intention of driving them in conditions ranging from daily street use to high performance competition.

The most important part in my mind. Its just a Its just show car with fancy parts until you do.

[tyoneal]

To Everyone:

I have tried to be accurate in this definition, I'm sure some people will disagree with me because of the boundaries I put in place, but definitions have meanings. This is a relatively new word, and there should be a real definition associated with it.

Please take a moment and give this some thought, and ask yourself if these additions should be mandatory to truly satisfy the "Pro Touring" definition?

First, I believe the definition below is pretty accurate, but incomplete.

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Pro-touring: A style of building custom vehicles that integrates modern electronics, structural modifications, high performance engines, suspensions, wheels, brakes, and styling with the intention of driving them in conditions ranging from daily street use to high performance competition.
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These have to be a part of a Pro Touring Car:

1) I HAS to be drivin on the street, AND in some sort of competition at least once. (Drag Strip, Real Track Days, organized Road Ralley, Autocross, USCA event, other SCCA events) If you are not doing this, you don't know enough about your car for it to be "Pro Touring", until challenged in competition what you have is a Hotrod, Trailer Queen, Show Car, Custom, Vintage, Cruising etc. car. These are all wonderful parts of the car Hobby, But Pro Touring should be more specific.

Have you noticed the price difference between a recognized "Pro Touring" car and any other type car that has been customized someway? Done nicely they will almost always be worth more money, because of the time and effort someone has put into the car to "Make it work".

It's not unusual for a good 1969 Camaro PT car to fetch close to or above $100,000. That is more money than many used Exotic Cars. Porsche's, Ferrari's, Mercedes Benz, Lotus, Aston Marton's, plus most of the true stock Historic Vintage Street Cars that go to auction.
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2) A "Pro Touring" car MUST be at least Vintage in age, 25-30 year old. One does not go out and buy a New 2015 "Pro Touring" Car. A PT car MUST show a sizable effort to upgrade every aspect of a car to increase it's performance.

Cars like the new Camaro's, Corvette's, Challengers, Lotus, Ferrari's, Lambo's, Toyota (The Fast one from the factory) etc. Should NEVER be considered "Pro Touring" Cars!

With 25-30 year old cars one must really have a plan and execute it, and prove it, for it to be at least somewhat successful in the outcome.

Cars newer than this should never be allowed to compete in the same class as "Pro Touring" cars. Many new cars start out with traction control, ABS, Launch Control, terrific suspension geometry, great specially tuned shocks, Blowers, Turbo's etc. It is ridiculous to have these types of cars considered, "Pro Touring".

"Pro Touring" cars are a culmination of many hours of work, tons of money, artistic skill, problem solving, research, and so on. Clicking boxes and writing checks don't count unless you are buying an existing, or paying for a Vintage car to be assembled. I would like to do every part of my cars, but I have a bad back and replaced shoulder. There are just some things that I physically can't do, however there is much I can do and should. It could be that people don't have the time to build one. I know this sounds like going into a dealership for a new car, but it isn't because as stated above:

a) The principal base car is used. (ie. Vintage Car)

b) Many hours of work have to go into it.

c) Artistic Skills

d) Problem Solving

e) Research

f) Lots of money (probably at least $20-$30,000 in parts, more than likely a lot more than this.)

New cars are on a assembly line with everything already done and basically the same. To pay someone to build a custom car requires much more time and skill, as practically all these cars are customized with no two being the same, nor with starting with the exact same "Base" and quality of the car to work with.

I truly believe knowledgable people know there is a profound difference between a "Pro Touring" car and everything else. PT cars perform better, usually have very high quality parts throughout, and cost a lot more to build.

I think without specifics, the meaning of the word "Pro Touring" becomes "Watered Down", when newer cars, just older cars, restomods, Hotrods and the like are thrown in with the definition.

I really believe that even the Ultimate Street car competition should divide the old and the new cars. They are just totally different animals. You can always compare your times against them or compete with them directly, but that's as far as it should go. NEW CARS are never in competition in the "Pro Touring" class.

Believe me the after market builders that add to the new cars are terrific, they do a great job, however these cars are in a different league than the sucessful conversion of a Classic Car (over 25 years old) into a legitimate performing Pro Touring Car!

Please I really want to hear other opinions, I do believe these are very important differences. When you set out to build one of these cars, it is usually no small undertaking either in time or money. A lot of dedication is required to finish it.

Someone mentioned, "A protouring car is what you think it is". I believe this to be wrong. A Roush enhanced new Mustang, AMG Mercedes are both terrific top of the line car companies, but they start in most cases with cars that are already pretty hot performers from the get go, and thus do not conform with the definition of building/creating Pro Touring cars.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

Maybe at the different Venues, the organizers of the different car gatherings around the Nation could certify a true protouring car vs. a Modifiedcar of some kind. It is done for other groups of cars like the Corvettes. (Bloomington Gold, Silver, Survivor etc.)

If Judging is kept rigid and constant, it might actually become a certification that helps the value of your car if you want to sell it.

Made legitimate, it could help the continued justification to pay the higher price normally associated with PT cars.

[clill]

I think there are plenty of Pro touring cars that have never been driven in competition and don't think that should be part of the requirement. Plenty of cars get built just so they handle well in street driving and never get to the track.

[GregWeld]

Yep -- Have to agree (as distasteful as that is) with Charley... the name is Pro TOURING -- not Pro Racing... Touring means it has a lot of great attributes and is capable of being drivable - if not almost comfortable - on a longer drive.

[cluxford]

surely it's just evolution.

Pro-street was all the rage in the 80's / 90's. Why there were very few if any road race, circuit track style events for street driven cars. It was basically only drag style events.

Also emissions laws and registration laws meant there were few if any limits, so driving a back halved, massively blown car on the street was doable.

No longer.

Now restrictions limit that style of car.

Also there is way way more circuit track style events.

I hate the name pro-touring. To me it's evolution, and the thought leaders / pioneers will always be creating evolution long before it becomes main stream for us mere mortals.

[tyoneal]

Cluxford:

Thanks for the input.
I know the answers to you questions/statements as I began driving "updated" cars back in 1977.

My first Camaro was a 1967, with 3 on the tree and a 327 2 bbl with 210 hp. Paid $500 for it and it was in pretty nice shape with no rust and 60k miles.

I searched every junk yard within 100 miles of my house looking for parts. Very rarely was anything available. (Remember no internet searching was around for a place to possibly look and most businesses at least early on didn't even have a computer so inventory look up of what they had was essentially non-existant.)

Please read below in your comments for some thoughts:

Originally Posted by cluxford

surely it's just evolution.

Pro-street was all the rage in the 80's / 90's. Why there were very few if any road race, circuit track style events for street driven cars. It was basically only drag style events.

Pro-Street, in my opinion, was almost the only thing you could do to car, but most of the cars never got off a trailer unless it was at a car show, or onto the streets, or a Drag Strip. They looked cool, but I didn't see any "All Around" reason to build one, and after I dropped a 454 LS-7 into my car, I'm sure I could run (with some decent tires) with most of them without all the expense. (Low 11 second 1/4 mile)

BTW: As a possible point of interest, the LS-7 was one of the earliest crate engines I can remember. You could buy one at the local chevrolet dealership. I bought mine used with only 12 runs on it from a friend of mine for $1000.

I wanted a corner carving cars. During the ladder 1970's through the 80's and early 90's, but No one made ANY parts. The cars were to old for the dealers to stock anything for them, and to young for them to be collectable, and they were not worth enough to justify anyone making parts for them.

A straight line/Pro Street Car was not really a rage as I remember it, it was the ONLY thing 99% of the people could do with their cars to make them sporty, cool and sometimes actually perform well.

There were a few tracks around the country, but nothing like it is today. We live in a automotive Utopia compared to 25 years ago.

Also emissions laws and registration laws meant there were few if any limits, so driving a back halved, massively blown car on the street was doable.

I live in Texas and it is not uncommon at the local burger joints now to see "Back Halved" and "Blown" cars. The Zoomies made now really sell the edgy looking cars. They are really cool and I love them.

Is Texas an anomily as far as street registration laws are concerned? I know California is bad about things, but are there a lot of states where you couldn't run one of those cars?

What part of them would be illegal? For instance I have seen some '33 3 window coupes with blown engines and very visible Zoomies. They look really cool.

No longer.

Now restrictions limit that style of car.

Also there is way way more circuit track style events.

Praise the Lord!, but what good are the tracks if people don't or won't ever put their cars on one?

I hate the name pro-touring. To me it's evolution, and the thought leaders / pioneers will always be creating evolution long before it becomes main stream for us mere mortals.

What would you think would be a better name for the cars we like?

Thanks again for your input.

Ty O'Neal

[clill]

Now we are " Pro Posers" if we don't at least do a 30 second autocross ? Really ? I don't even like doing autocross. If fact the guy that came up with the name "Pro Touring" doesn't care for autocross either. "A waste of money." Basically any car other than something like a Ford Focus, Toyota Camry etc is a waste of money but we build cars be cause we like them. They don't have to make financial sense. I have real race cars that I prefer to use on the track and would rather not destroy my street car on the track. That doesn't mean the street car does not get it's legs stretched on country roads etc. I might have to get into Pro dog walking or something because I'm wasting my money doing "fun stuff " with cars.

[cluxford]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

What would you think would be a better name for the cars we like?

Thanks again for your input.

Ty O'Neal

Why do we need a name ? Don't we just all like cars. I love cars, of all shapes, sizes, colour, style and purpose. I call them what they are. 33 Ford, 69 Camaro, C7 Vette, Shoebox Chevy. If there are 3 cars of the same year, lets say 57 Chev and one has his in concours, another highly modified, and another just bolt on's. why do we need to give them a name they are just 3 awesome interpretations of an awesome car. Each to be admired.

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Yep -- Have to agree (as distasteful as that is) with Charley... the name is Pro TOURING -- not Pro Racing... Touring means it has a lot of great attributes and is capable of being drivable - if not almost comfortable - on a longer drive.

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Greg:

Thanks for the input:

"Pro TOURING -- not Pro Racing... Touring means it has a lot of great attributes and is capable of being drivable"

Grand Touring 1 cars, Grand Touring 2 cars, Grand Touring 3 cars, are hardly cars you would or could drive on the street successfully with any modicum of comfort, they are full blown race cars.

I believe the PT cars should be proven/experianced to actually doing both, otherwise what is the point of all the Roll Bars/Cages, High Speed Tires, Double adjustable shocks, 600 to 900 hp engines, the 13-14 inch, 4 and 6 pot disk brakes, 6-Speed Transmissions?

It would seem without ANY taste of a high performance experience, the cars would be:

1. A waste of a ton of money

2. Pro Touring cars would also fall under the "Pro Poser" title. The requirements I mentioned were very meanial. It is basically any experiance off public roads where one can experience some of the fruits of all their labors and money.

Otherwise, what is the point? One can build a car that looks cool for a heck of a lot less money.

Is that really too much to ask of a car being in the "Touring" Category?

The highways in Germany, the middle east, and Italy are probably more of a challenge than doing a 30 second autocross.

Again, I do appreaciate your comments. I am taking this position so that the thread can possibly shed some more depth into this part of the hobby.

Do you agree with any of the other points I mentioned? If not, please state your thoughts on the subject.

Thanks again.

Ty ONeal