What Is Pro Touring?

[Che70velle]

Found in Websters...

touring car noun

Definition of TOURING CAR

: an automobile suitable for distance driving: as
a : a vintage automobile with two cross seats, usually four doors, and a folding top : phaeton 2
b : a modern usually 2-door sedan as distinguished from a sports car

[tyoneal]

che70velle:

I think you went in the right direction, but missed the specific a small amount.

This is a bit long however, I think it hits the nail on the head. Let me know what you think. (You might need to make the window a bit larger.)

This describes what we strive for except I think we should be called:

American Classic Touring Cars or American Classic GT
===============================
Grand tourer/Grand Touring "Car", (not to be confused with a GT Race Car)
From Wikipedia,

"Gran turismo" redirects here. For other uses, see Gran Turismo.

Classic examples of Grand Touring Cars.

Porsche 911, a GT model built since 1964

A classic Gran Turismo, the 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO

1953 Bentley Continental grand tourer

A grand tourer (Italian: gran turismo) (GT) is a performance or luxury automobile capable of high speed or spirited long-distance driving. The most common format is a two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 arrangement.

The term derives from the Italian phrase gran turismo, a tribute to the tradition of the grand tour, used to represent automobiles regarded as grand tourers, able to make long-distance, high-speed journeys in both comfort and style. The English translation is grand touring.

Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG

The Grand Tourer, Grand Turismo, Grand Routiere, or GT terms are the most misused and abused terms in motoring.[1] According to author Sam Dawson, "the ideal is of a car with the ability to cross a continent at speed and in comfort yet provide driving thrills when demanded" and it should exhibit the following:[1]

"Ideally, the GT car should have been devised by its progenitors as a Grand Tourer, with all associated considerations in mind."
"It should be able to transport at least two in comfort with their luggage and have room to spare - probably in the form of a two plus two (2+2) seating arrangement."
The engines "should be able to cope with cruising comfortably at the upper limits on all continental roads without drawbacks or loss of useable power."
The design, both "inside and out, should be geared toward complete control by the driver."
Its "chassis and suspension provide suitable handling and roadholding on all routes" during travels.
Grand tourers emphasize comfort and handling over straight-out high performance or spartan accommodations. Historically, most GTs have been front-engined with rear-wheel drive, which creates more space for the cabin than mid-mounted engine layouts. Softer suspensions, greater storage, and more luxurious appointments add to their driving appeal.

Thanks for reading, I look forward to your opinion.

Take care,

Ty
=================================

Originally Posted by Che70velle

Found in Websters...

touring car noun

Definition of TOURING CAR

: an automobile suitable for distance driving: as
a : a vintage automobile with two cross seats, usually four doors, and a folding top : phaeton 2
b : a modern usually 2-door sedan as distinguished from a sports car

[Che70velle]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

che70velle:

I think you went in the right direction, but missed the specific a small amount.

This is a bit long however, I think it hits the nail on the head. Let me know what you think. (You might need to make the window a bit larger.)

This describes what we strive for except I think we should be called:

American Classic Touring Cars or American Classic GT
===============================
Grand tourer/Grand Touring "Car", (not to be confused with a GT Race Car)
From Wikipedia,

"Gran turismo" redirects here. For other uses, see Gran Turismo.

Classic examples of Grand Touring Cars.

Porsche 911, a GT model built since 1964

A classic Gran Turismo, the 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO

1953 Bentley Continental grand tourer

A grand tourer (Italian: gran turismo) (GT) is a performance or luxury automobile capable of high speed or spirited long-distance driving. The most common format is a two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 arrangement.

The term derives from the Italian phrase gran turismo, a tribute to the tradition of the grand tour, used to represent automobiles regarded as grand tourers, able to make long-distance, high-speed journeys in both comfort and style. The English translation is grand touring.

Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG

The Grand Tourer, Grand Turismo, Grand Routiere, or GT terms are the most misused and abused terms in motoring.[1] According to author Sam Dawson, "the ideal is of a car with the ability to cross a continent at speed and in comfort yet provide driving thrills when demanded" and it should exhibit the following:[1]

"Ideally, the GT car should have been devised by its progenitors as a Grand Tourer, with all associated considerations in mind."
"It should be able to transport at least two in comfort with their luggage and have room to spare - probably in the form of a two plus two (2+2) seating arrangement."
The engines "should be able to cope with cruising comfortably at the upper limits on all continental roads without drawbacks or loss of useable power."
The design, both "inside and out, should be geared toward complete control by the driver."
Its "chassis and suspension provide suitable handling and roadholding on all routes" during travels.
Grand tourers emphasize comfort and handling over straight-out high performance or spartan accommodations. Historically, most GTs have been front-engined with rear-wheel drive, which creates more space for the cabin than mid-mounted engine layouts. Softer suspensions, greater storage, and more luxurious appointments add to their driving appeal.

Thanks for reading, I look forward to your opinion.

Take care,

Ty
=================================

So Ty, were a bunch of hobbyists. Nothing more. We come from all walks of life, and all of us share a common creed, which is a passion for cars. All we are doing here is taking an otherwise stock automobile, and transforming it into a better handling, more efficient running, safer to ride in car, while improving the looks somewhat, and that's (improving the looks) debatable to many. I don't really know how or why someone first called this "Pro-Touring", but to MOST people, it refers only to a style, and doesn't hold guidelines on how far you need to modify your car. I know that I for one, would be outta here if I had to meet a criteria comparable to a Steilow build, with custom built, one off parts, and carbon fiber body panels. I simply am not willing to put that kind of money into a car. I could replicate my home, for that kind of coin. What I'm trying to say is that we all have modded our cars on different levels, to the point of where there not really two cars exactly alike. So I suggest that we leave the title, or name of this hobby alone, before it becomes a formality of having to have an exact amount of certain items, in order to be accepted into the hobby. But you are suggesting that the HOBBY be renamed: AMERICAN CLASSIC TOURING CARS? or AMERICAN CLASSIC GT?

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by Che70velle

So Ty, were a bunch of hobbyists. Nothing more. We come from all walks of life, and all of us share a common creed, which is a passion for cars. All we are doing here is taking an otherwise stock automobile, and transforming it into a better handling, more efficient running, safer to ride in car, while improving the looks somewhat, and that's (improving the looks) debatable to many. I don't really know how or why someone first called this "Pro-Touring", but to MOST people, it refers only to a style, and doesn't hold guidelines on how far you need to modify your car.

I certainly see you point. I have just tried to read the definition (That I didn't create) and understand what the original question was asking. Just because something might point to a direction, or level that is beyond what you would choose to do for your car for one reason or another is just fine.

Under the definition, None of my projects are currently at the true "Pro Touring" level. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy my cars. It is the segment of this Hobby that I enjoy and like the most. As time goes by, at least at this point, I will continue to would on my "Pro Touring" project, drive my "Pro Touring" project, and enjoy my "Pro Touring" project.

I know that I for one, would be outta here if I had to meet a criteria comparable to a Steilow build, with custom built, one off parts, and carbon fiber body panels. I simply am not willing to put that kind of money into a car.

I do understand and there is nothing wrong with that, nor should there be. This is just a Hobby we are passionate about, nothing that we would take food away from a baby over. All I have tried to do it look at the definition and understand what it means. I've just tried to break it down to it's purest form that's all.

I could replicate my home, for that kind of coin. What I'm trying to say is that we all have modded our cars on different levels, to the point of where there not really two cars exactly alike. So I suggest that we leave the title, or name of this hobby alone, before it becomes a formality of having to have an exact amount of certain items, in order to be accepted into the hobby. But you are suggesting that the HOBBY be renamed: AMERICAN CLASSIC TOURING CARS? or AMERICAN CLASSIC GT?

All I was trying to do is to take what I thought were synonyms of the definitions we are given, and reword the stated definition, as to create a name that essentially said the same thing. I think I even broadened it a bit. It doesn't matter to me whether is stays the same or changes.
I have tried to encourage this the whole time, I tried to make the question more dynamic than it was as to create some real discussion and thought. I think for the most part, at least by looking at the answers, that many on this board have really given the original question, A LOT, of thought. I have learned many things about how the people, at least those here who are willing to voice their opinion, think what "Pro Touring" is and how to describe it.
I tend to agree with everyone. I am working on my cars to make them as close to true "Pro Touring" as possible within the time, personal preferences I have and financial constrants I have to work with.

I think that is what most of us are doing.

I don't think there would be many of us that would stay if it was so deeply regimented. We probably wouldn't qualify to begin with. I would be in this group as well.

Thanks agin for you thoughts, thay have certainly helped move the dialog further.

Take care,

Ty O'Neal

[GregWeld]

This is like trying to define what's a "STREET CAR" -- what's streetable to you might not be anything I'd consider streetable. Touring is equally difficult to define. I would not want to drive either of Hobaugh's cars on the street - nor Mike Maier's Mustang or several other cars that we all love, and would love to own.

Having driven HellFire on the street... THAT is the best definition of a "pro touring" car I can come up with. It's truly long distance comfortable, easily driving in stop and go traffic, and we know it's track capable (far in excess of most drivers ability).

My point is that some people - in an effort to "beat" a car like HellFire on the track - will no doubt go "too far" and the ride or some other part will suffer. Still - that is what they wanted to build and it's still pro touring in our eyes.

It's like "having enough money". What's enough money? Put a definition on that. It's impossible but we'll know it when we see it. LOL

[fleetus macmullitz]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Having driven HellFire on the street... THAT is the best definition of a "pro touring" car I can come up with. It's truly long distance comfortable, easily driving in stop and go traffic, and we know it's track capable (far in excess of most drivers ability).

That car seems to be the ultimate PT car...or at least until XVI?


And...it's extremely helpful that Dr. Stielow is a teaching physician on this board.

[FETorino]

Pro Tourning Its a street legal car of vintage decent modified by the owner, in the way the owner envisions it to be the ultimate roadworthy version of a car the owner has chosen.

PT is in the eye of the beholder.


People want to test the metal of their creations so cone dodging or open track days exist.

I can't knock someone for trying to make a few bucks by creating a series but a true PT car (not something built to win a "class") is a street, car not a race car, and ultimately is what the owner wants it to be.

Why not debate what the definition of the ultimate production car is? I'm sure we can agree on that.