Anyone else seeing an issue with companies going "China" on us? - Lateral-g Forums

bdahlg68 · #1 04-27-2015, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidBoren

You pretty much have to take the chance a couple times until you have a list of trustees, and avoid straying from that list whenever possible. It sucks, but it's what we do with everything in life. You don't go to the store that sells sour milk, you don't go to the dentist that pulls the wrong tooth, and you don't buy from the American part manufacturer that uses sh!tty Chinese bolts/A-arms/whatever it is.

Having been to China more times than is reasonable I must say that there is actually very capable sources there. The issue with China sourcing (or really any of Asia) is that it takes an extraordinary amount of effort and oversight to execute. That effort and oversight doesn't end when you find someone that "can" make the part. You have to stay on top of it and be persistent and thorough on each order and each shipment. I believe many companies fail to plan for just how much continued effort there is and because of this, unknowingly over commit to their customers.

JB400 · #2 04-27-2015, 09:33 PM

The majority of the ones that care about American made products are the Chinese. Pretty bad when the largest upcoming industry country would rather have foreign made products instead of their own.

Vince@Meanstreets · #3 04-27-2015, 10:29 PM

you just never know....

dhutton · #4 04-28-2015, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdahlg68

Having been to China more times than is reasonable I must say that there is actually very capable sources there. The issue with China sourcing (or really any of Asia) is that it takes an extraordinary amount of effort and oversight to execute. That effort and oversight doesn't end when you find someone that "can" make the part. You have to stay on top of it and be persistent and thorough on each order and each shipment. I believe many companies fail to plan for just how much continued effort there is and because of this, unknowingly over commit to their customers.

Very well said. I have been involved with sourcing manufacturing and design in China (and India, Taiwan, Korea etc) for many years and this is exactly the case. Plenty of capabilities and capacity there, it just has to be properly managed and executed.

Don

Graham08 · #5 04-28-2015, 05:38 AM

The thing that really scares me about things sourced offshore is the part you can't see. Meaning, you can generally look at a product and see if it's manufactured correctly from a machining, welding, and build quality standpoint, but you're trusting the supplier when it comes to metallurgy and heat treatment. And, many times material "certifications" from offshore are the same copy Xeroxed thousands of times--no actual testing has taken place.

I have experienced this myself with Chinese "4130" tubing. Bending 1-1/2" x 0.058" wall just works with domestic tube. Occasionally the inside of the bend will wrinkle a bit because the wall thickness is right at the point where it's too thin to do without a mandrel. A buddy brought over some Chinese stuff for me to bend, and it got to about 45 degrees and collapsed. I'm not sure exactly what was different, but it obviously wasn't as strong as what I was used to dealing with.

I've started paying more and buying from trusted suppliers to ensure things like 4130 tubing and fasteners are coming from domestic or trusted offshore sources for this reason. By trusted offshore, I mean companies with actual names in western Europe or Taiwan, not generic "China" or "India". Losing a race car because of a fastener or material failure is a hell of a lot more expensive than paying the extra few bucks for the good stuff in the first place.

**kwhizz** · #6 04-28-2015, 06:04 AM

It's going to take a while for the Global Economy to balance out..........Lot's of issues that come into the Blend ..........Government regulations, Highest Corporate Taxes in the World.... Unions, Ambulance Chasing Lawyers going for the Settlement are just a Few.......If you own a business......you will take the path of least resistance......Supply and Demand.......

Ken

68Cuda · #7 04-28-2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham08

I've started paying more and buying from trusted suppliers to ensure things like 4130 tubing and fasteners are coming from domestic or trusted offshore sources for this reason. By trusted offshore, I mean companies with actual names in western Europe or Taiwan, not generic "China" or "India". Losing a race car because of a fastener or material failure is a hell of a lot more expensive than paying the extra few bucks for the good stuff in the first place.

If you have ANY doubt, ask for a "Mill Certificate" for the material you are buying. Any metal raw material supplier should be able to get it and it is required by customs for anything imported.

mfain · #8 04-28-2015, 08:23 PM

They may have "plenty of capability", but their raw materials are pure crap. Do a metallurgical analysis of just about anything that comes from China. It will make you sick. It's just getting hard to find a well made alternative. I put a 250K mile carrier bearing back in my 1 ton rather than putting in the new one in the GM wrapper (made in China, Mainland) that I got from the dealer. Disgusted with the obvious inferior metal. Pitched it in the trash - would have cost more in fuel to take it back. Not to mention what the massive influx of junk at an unrealistically low price is doing to our economy. Wait until there is no longer any manufacturing capability in the good old USA and see what you pay for junk - it will be the only game in town. Yes, you hit a nerve. Maybe losing part of a finger to a Chinese built coil spring compressor that exploded in my hand had some influence on my thought process.

Another short story - went to O'Reilly's on a Sunday to get a rear wheel bearing for a dually (replaced it the next week with a Timken). O'Reilly's good bearing was $26, but they had one for $6.95!!! Imagine the quality. That bearing would be worth more as scrap steel - if it was made out of real steel. The Timken was $68 at Jobber price. Glad to pay it!

Pappy

Hotrod1 · #9 04-29-2015, 08:13 AM

I have traveled the Midwest and it makes you sick about what has happened.

For me, if I can find something made in the USA, I will do my best to buy it. I support my country anyway I can.

Its a shame how we have given our country away with agreements like nafta.

DavidBoren · #10 04-29-2015, 08:47 AM

Pride isn't, or shouldn't be, based on nationality. I prefer to buy products that are manufactured in America because of the standardized processes, quality control, and information available pertaining to the materials used. It has nothing to do with me being born and raised in America.

I am not so easily convinced that the global market or strict environmental laws or even illegal immigrants are the reason for there being so many unemployed Americans. I blame America for the amount of unemployed Americans.

Corporate greed and laziness are why things are the way they are. It saves a dollar to outsource, and we the people are willing to buy the poor quality products that result. If we didn't facilitate it, they wouldn't do it. If we were willing to do the crap jobs ourselves, immigrants wouldn't be here knowing they can find work.

We did this to us.