1970 Camaro SS/RS "dis-traction"

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Matt.A

Mike you did really well out there for one of your first events! LVMS is a bit of a technical track that requires a little bit of everything. You need to be able to brake hard, rotate through all the 180s and be able to pick up the throttle early on corner exit, and have horsepower and driver ability to make it all come together.

With DSE suspension front and rear, I would want to be in the ballpark of 600/400 fr to rr, if you are using DSE's standard anti roll bars. I would get a set of 400lb rear springs from Maier, and let that be your first tuning modification. After an autocross day with that setup, then change the front to 600 or 650 if you aren't happy. Sometimes on the DSE subframes more front spring rate or a stiffer front sway bar will help make the car easier feeling to drive, and a bit faster for the driver on an autocross. Those rates will probably still give you something that is relatively easy to drive, which (in my opinion) is a good place to start until you have a ton of seat time.

I assume Ron concurs or you wouldn't have posted this.

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by Flash68

I assume Ron concurs or you wouldn't have posted this.

Nah, rather than change springs Ron just bought a C5 Z06.
Actually, if I remember right, we put 450s in the back of his car. He did say it was easier to drive than the other setup that someone gave as a baseline.

[rustomatic]

I didn't know you had a thread here, Mike . . . what somebody said above. You just need to wheel the crap out of this thing and learn what it does and when (Skyline? My 'hood?). If all else fails, you'll always be the guy who passed me on my first track day . . .

Don't feel so bad about (potentially overreacting to) the adjustment thing. Because my Falcon seems to like corner diving, and because I'm too stupid/diverted (presently) to deal with my leaf spring situation (too light), I've decided to just rip the whole chassis out from under thing thing . . .

I've got an LS motor with a 6-speed auto sitting in front of my hot water heater now, partly because I'm just old now, but mostly just because I lack sufficient impulse control . . .

[Chad-1stGen]

Hey Mike,

It was nice meeting you this past weekend. I hope to see you at other events.

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by Matt.A

Nah, rather than change springs Ron just bought a C5 Z06.
Actually, if I remember right, we put 450s in the back of his car. He did say it was easier to drive than the other setup that someone gave as a baseline.

Yep all true. We also added more front spring, better tires and a decent baseline shock adjustment. Once that happened it became a different car. Now the mantra is seat time and tire pressures.

Hang in there Mike. You'll get there! And congrats on making it out to Vegas!

[GregWeld]

BTW --- Don't take my "fix the driver" comment as negative... it's just a fact. Unless you're car is just HORRIBLE... which it's probably not... Just go out and have fun - Screw "where you finished" or getting caught up in lap times. Go out - have fun - see if you can improve with what you got... and then as your brain catches up to the car - you'll be able to come in and say "on corner entry the right front dives" or it "porpoises" or "at corner exit it steps out" or something else..... and THEN someone with KNOWLEDGE (not the idiot next to you) can say 'try this'. Now you'll go out and pay attention to what happened with that change....

Right now -- my guess (I'm the idiot next to you) - is that you're just trying to survive the sessions -- and there's very little concentration on how the car is actually handling...

It's like Charlie used to ask me when I'd come in -- "what's your oil temp"? And I'd look at him like a deer in a headlight and say "I don't know". Once I got some seat time and things slowed down a bit == THEN I started paying attention to all these little details.... It's called SEAT TIME for a reason.

[glassman]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

you know you gotta kinda tune those suspensions right? Its not like a leafs where you toss em on and yell giddy up. nice job on the RC!!

yep, now the learning curve begins...thanx Vince...

Originally Posted by Flash68

Glassman... talk to Bad Ron Myers... he will help you plan out many changes to the car before your next event!

Thats what Matt was telling me out there...Good Ron has much to say/write too...my brain explodes when reading his data,

Originally Posted by Matt.A

Mike you did really well out there for one of your first events! LVMS is a bit of a technical track that requires a little bit of everything. You need to be able to brake hard, rotate through all the 180s and be able to pick up the throttle early on corner exit, and have horsepower and driver ability to make it all come together.

With DSE suspension front and rear, I would want to be in the ballpark of 600/400 fr to rr, if you are using DSE's standard anti roll bars. I would get a set of 400lb rear springs from Maier, and let that be your first tuning modification. After an autocross day with that setup, then change the front to 600 or 650 if you aren't happy. Sometimes on the DSE subframes more front spring rate or a stiffer front sway bar will help make the car easier feeling to drive, and a bit faster for the driver on an autocross. Those rates will probably still give you something that is relatively easy to drive, which (in my opinion) is a good place to start until you have a ton of seat time.

thanx Matt, i was gonna pm you re this, but that sums it up right there. And thats exactly what Maier told me....

Originally Posted by rustomatic

I didn't know you had a thread here, Mike . . . what somebody said above. You just need to wheel the crap out of this thing and learn what it does and when (Skyline? My 'hood?). If all else fails, you'll always be the guy who passed me on my first track day . . .

Don't feel so bad about (potentially overreacting to) the adjustment thing. Because my Falcon seems to like corner diving, and because I'm too stupid/diverted (presently) to deal with my leaf spring situation (too light), I've decided to just rip the whole chassis out from under thing thing . . .

I've got an LS motor with a 6-speed auto sitting in front of my hot water heater now, partly because I'm just old now, but mostly just because I lack sufficient impulse control . . .

Ha, i only passed you (on my first track day too ) because my instructor told me too (rather, he yelled at me too lol). BTW, hence the name "dis-traction", you'll understand...

Originally Posted by Chad-1stGen

Hey Mike,

It was nice meeting you this past weekend. I hope to see you at other events.

Thanx, we will. I'll be at Fontana and some more events in that neck of the woods. Two of my three kids live down there...

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

Yep all true. We also added more front spring, better tires and a decent baseline shock adjustment. Once that happened it became a different car. Now the mantra is seat time and tire pressures.

Hang in there Mike. You'll get there! And congrats on making it out to Vegas!

Seat time for sure, and tires r key, working on the spring rates in progress. Still like your 69 probably my fave. Looks and performance, total package baby!!!

Originally Posted by GregWeld

BTW --- Don't take my "fix the driver" comment as negative... it's just a fact. Unless you're car is just HORRIBLE... which it's probably not... Just go out and have fun - Screw "where you finished" or getting caught up in lap times. Go out - have fun - see if you can improve with what you got... and then as your brain catches up to the car - you'll be able to come in and say "on corner entry the right front dives" or it "porpoises" or "at corner exit it steps out" or something else..... and THEN someone with KNOWLEDGE (not the idiot next to you) can say 'try this'. Now you'll go out and pay attention to what happened with that change....

Right now -- my guess (I'm the idiot next to you) - is that you're just trying to survive the sessions -- and there's very little concentration on how the car is actually handling...

It's like Charlie used to ask me when I'd come in -- "what's your oil temp"? And I'd look at him like a deer in a headlight and say "I don't know". Once I got some seat time and things slowed down a bit == THEN I started paying attention to all these little details.... It's called SEAT TIME for a reason.

None taken. I agree with almost everything you say, your approach to this (and life) is very much my perspective as well. I dont know about you, but i'm my worst critic. I pay attention to the times to make me a better driver, just really suprised me how sh$itty i did.


I drove the car much better on leafs, now the learning begins. All this just because i wanted bigger tires for the looks lol. These cars (2nds gens) do amazingly well on leafs. I was faster on leafs, hence the curve....which is part of the fun...I love this car. I love driving it.
Sometimes i bitch about the tuning aspect and forget about the big picture. i think the key word is "focus", we tend to look down at the minor innuendos, and forget about the mountains...

I remember a saying we used in dirt biking, "the older i get the faster i was", but tell that to Paul Newman who competed at a very high level in the 24 hours of Daytona at I believe 78 years young....

[fleetus macmullitz]

Cool Paul Newman reference.

And likely you don't suck at driving as bad as you think you suck at driving...

[ks71z28]

Your problem is too many cooks in the Kitchen. I set your car up based on my experience, from what you told me you wished to do with your car. Your invoice states you have 600# front springs, which is what we run on cars that see a lot of street time and a bit of autocross and track stuff, which is what you explained to me was your intentions for the car. The combination of parts you have shouldn't be anywhere near a last place car by any means. You need to get some instruction time and more experience behind the wheel before you start replacing parts and pieces and spending money on things you may not need. Gauging your performance at an event like the USCA events is tough. The top 10 cars are usually big hitters with cars that are set up well and drivers that know how to use them.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

yeah, you have the base just start tweaking the recipe.