Consensus on big bar/soft spring?

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

It is/was pretty common to set-up a car low, with the crank centerline (at the balancer) at 12" above ground "to get the mass low". Then with a stiff front spring set-up, the car may travel (compress) 1" ... so this mass is 1" lower with the crank centerline at 11". Modern, high travel set-ups, may place the crank centerline at 13". Then travel the front end 3" to 4.5" under braking, before turn in. That puts the crank centerline at 8.5" to 10" depending upon the travel strategy.

If we put that mass at 8.5" ... the cornering speed capability compared to it being at 11" ... is a significant difference. All things being equal ... contact patch, car weight, track width, optimized spring & bar rates ... the car with the lower CG can carry significantly more speed. The other bonus is, the front end is loaded more from static load transfer of the front end being 3"-4.5" lower. This is in addition to the dynamic load transfer from braking g-forces.

Lastly, combined with the strategy of running the car flatter (less roll angle) increases the loading on the inside front tire ... increasing it's grip ... adding to the total grip the front end has. We can't go faster through a corner than the front end has grip. That needs to be our focus. Running a low roll strategy ... say 1° ... keeps the inside tires loaded more than a high roll strategy around 3°.

Make sense?

ummff! know it all

[SSLance]

See... Just like I said...

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by Rod P

ummff! know it all

told you


im in it for the looks.

[bergers59]

It all makes sense, like most of your posts though I need to digest it to be able to apply it

[chetly]

Listening to anyone other than A 6 time CP National Champion would be rather pointless.

Therefore, contact Mike Maier of Mike Maier Inc. He's leaving for Wisconsin tomorrow for Optima Event at Road America but will be back in the office on Tuesday. He'll then be leaving again later next week fo the SCCA solo National in Lincoln Nebraska where if he wins, he'll hold the record for most overall National Championships in CP with 7. Right now he's tied for the most.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by chetly

Listening to anyone other than A 6 time CP National Champion would be rather pointless.

Therefore, contact Mike Maier of Mike Maier Inc. He's leaving for Wisconsin tomorrow for Optima Event at Road America but will be back in the office on Tuesday. He'll then be leaving again later next week fo the SCCA solo National in Lincoln Nebraska where if he wins, he'll hold the record for most overall National Championships in CP with 7. Right now he's tied for the most.

pointless? Not following.

Auto cross road course and street all tune different. In my opinion Auto x is a completely different animal when it comes to tuning and suspension design.

With the technology in chassis rigidity, shock tuning, shock valving and accurate spring rates going on now you can get away with less bar. Let your geometry work.

[alwaysracin]

I totally agree autocross setup is different than any other form of Motorsports.

Ron, how many SCCA autocross nationals champions are using your setup or advice? Who?


Scott Fraser

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by alwaysracin

I totally agree autocross setup is different than any other form of Motorsports.

Ron, how many SCCA autocross nationals champions are using your setup or advice? Who?


Scott Fraser

easy scooter! Ron's pretty new to the autocross culture....give him a few and we will see top cars using his designs and theory's another 2 or 3 years...hey a title isn't everything, i know a guy who has a national champ win (trophy and record books to prove it) and he was in a class of one so he won by default, and you look at his times for the event he was slower than novice ladies last placer.....but hey he can still claim a title as an SCCA National Champion and you know me Scott and I don't have that claim...and I can still point you in the right direction when your building your car

[chetly]

Originally Posted by Rod P

easy scooter! Ron's pretty new to the autocross culture....give him a few and we will see top cars using his designs and theory's another 2 or 3 years...hey a title isn't everything, i know a guy who has a national champ win (trophy and record books to prove it) and he was in a class of one so he won by default, and you look at his times for the event he was slower than novice ladies last placer.....but hey he can still claim a title as an SCCA National Champion and you know me Scott and I don't have that claim...and I can still point you in the right direction when your building your car

Comparing Mikes 6 CP national championships to "some guy" who won by default is a slap in the face to Mike. CP for the longest time was one of the most contested classes at an SCCA National Finals event. His wins were far from a one person class...

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by chetly

Comparing Mikes 6 CP national championships to "some guy" who won by default is a slap in the face to Mike. CP for the longest time was one of the most contested classes at an SCCA National Finals event. His wins were far from a one person class...

better untie your panties "chetly" I am not putting Mike down...Mike and myself go way back...unless you know me shut your pie hole. The point was "titles" if you have them or dont doesn't make the answer right or wrong.... if your going to act like a key board warrior at least use your real name if you have something relevant to add then do so other wise move along...I think everyone here knows me in the real world I'm not just some forum jockey and I will be straight foreword, I dont toss around keyboard balls son I have brass ones....