1985 Monte Carlo SS known as Barney

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by SSLance

Yeah Bob, it's a Ridetech Musclebar...but this one is not an off the shelf bar.

Their stock center piece is a 1.5" dia 0.120" wall tube, I ran that for a while, then upgraded to a 0.250" wall tube and now have a 0.375" wall tube center piece on the car.

Each upgrade was substantial and completely changed the way the car handled to the better. I am still not used to how well the car turns in now, it's very Mini Cooper like.

Just an FYI Bob, with each step up in front sway bar size (and rate) we increased the rear spring rate to be balanced. The car runs flatter, has more grip & quicker response because of the combination of larger front sway bar & stiffer rate rear springs, to go along with the matching geometry, shock valving, etc.

*I didn't want anyone to think increasing the front sway bar size alone is what works. It's just the part we talk about most.

[SSLance]

^ Yeah that...

Just for reference, these are the rear spring rates I ran with each front bar I've put on the car to maintain the balanced handling:

36mm F-body front sway bar - 165# rear spring
1.5" 0.120" Wall Tube Front Bar - 182# rear spring
1.5" 0.250" Wall Tube Front Bar - 200# rear spring
1.5" 0.375" Wall Tube Front Bar - 250# rear spring

I've had 600# springs on the front ever since I put the coilovers on the car.

The rear sway bar has been the 1" solid lower control arm mounted bar that I've run forever.

I'm certain every car is different and by no means say that if you put these parts on your car, it'll handle like mine...but I've raced this car a lot with each of these setups and they have all worked great for me. They just keep getting better and better as we've upped the size of the front bar (and rear springs to match).

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by SSLance

^ Yeah that...

Just for reference, these are the rear spring rates I ran with each front bar I've put on the car to maintain the balanced handling:

36mm F-body front sway bar - 165# rear spring
1.5" 0.120" Wall Tube Front Bar - 182# rear spring
1.5" 0.250" Wall Tube Front Bar - 200# rear spring
1.5" 0.375" Wall Tube Front Bar - 250# rear spring

I've had 600# springs on the front ever since I put the coilovers on the car.

The rear sway bar has been the 1" solid lower control arm mounted bar that I've run forever.

I'm certain every car is different and by no means say that if you put these parts on your car, it'll handle like mine...but I've raced this car a lot with each of these setups and they have all worked great for me. They just keep getting better and better as we've upped the size of the front bar (and rear springs to match).

Thanks for sharing that Lance. That gives guys an idea of how the two are related to keep the handling balanced.

[Panteracer]

Thanks guys
I am a little ways from getting the car
Lightened then I can weigh and measure things
I think a better bar the right size will help
along with the other things. Looks like you
have been fine tuning for a while

Bob

[SSLance]

We initially thought going with the 0.250" wall tube bar was getting jiggy with it, Ron mentioned to me in passing the other day that an even bigger front bar than what is on the car now would still help it.

It's been a progression for sure, but just to be clear...the car has been neutral balanced ever since stage 1. It just keeps getting faster and faster the flatter we've gotten it to run.

[SRD Art]

Thanks for sharing! Curious, what do those front bars translate to in # rate?

What are you feeling most with the car as you make changes- faster times, easier to drive, less stress trying to keep the car in control, etc. ...? All of the above?

Right now sway bars are one of my focuses so while the car is down for some repairs and upgrades I'm taking notes.

[SSLance]

Ever since we put Stage 1 of Ron's setup under this car, the car has been friendly to drive. I am not exaggerating...all of the evils the car had previously just went away.

From then on it has just been a matter of fine tuning and tweaking both shock settings and driver ability to get the car to carry maximum speed through the corners...which in turn led to faster times on the clock and higher rankings in the day's results.

Each subsequent upgrade in front bar (and rear springs) just made the car more responsive to steering input and gave it the ability to carry even more speed in all 3 phases of a turn.

We are at a point now with both driver ability and car setup that a single click on a shock or a single pound of air pressure will make a slight change one way or the other...whatever we need to carry just a bit more speed in a specific turn. There are no more large problem areas...it's all just minor tweaking to tune to a specific course...or driver preference.


At CAM East when Ryan was co-driving the car with me, his preference is a "tight" handling car. He likes to lean on the outside front tire the most, feel where it's grip level is at and drive up to that point...while I like more of a "free" feel (probably comes from driving a car that would not turn for so long).

We discussed this beforehand and also discussed where to start on the rear shock settings...knowing what it would be like and how we'd sneak up on tightening the rear rebound hopefully without going too far. We knew it would start off pretty free, and the opposite side would be once we tightened up the rear rebound too much it would start carrying the inside rear tire and upset the car that way. We adjusted 1 click into the rear shocks 1 after my first run, then 1 click after his first run...after his second run he wanted 1 more click and that got the car pretty good everywhere on the course.

By then he was putting laps in almost a second faster than me, in a car he had never driven before, with a setup like he had never driven before. After that, each of his runs were within 1 or 2 tenths of his best time. On his last run he asked me if we could lower the front tire pressures about 4 psi. He had his fast time in the books already and wanted to see if lowering the front pressures would tighten the car up enough for him to carry a bit more speed thru the large 180 at the back. His time was about the same as previous runs, he said it was a tick better in the large 180, but it felt lazier just about everywhere else on the course. On Sunday morning he didn't hesitate...we put the original tire pressures back in the car and we both set pretty fast times on our first runs that day as well.

My point for typing all of that is...I feel that anyone can adapt to driving this type of setup, it really is that easy to drive. You do not fight the car, you just have to coax it into finding the most speed you can with little tweaks here and there...both on the car and from the driver seat. The car has been like that ever since we had the F-body bar on the front...it's just a LOT faster now with the MonsterBar up under there.