1969 Camaro tru-turn

[bret]

Originally Posted by glr0212

Stove,

Sorry you are having issues. I 100% agree, the system is not streetable with 275 or even 265 tires. I actually sold my entire setup and bought a dse subframe. The 6.25 backspace will work with their subframe. no need to rehoop or buy new tires.

I appreciate the effort ridetech put into this thread, but I will reiterate my warning to others. Don't buy this system and expect to maintain driveability. You will lose turning radius and you will have rubbing. It just doesn't work without major surgery. If nothing else, call a reputable builder who has done this and find out what is actually involved with making this work and what compromises have to be made (turning radius). You will figure out pretty quickly that you are better off buying a speedtech, AME, or DSE subframe. Price will end up being about the same and you will get full functionality.

This setup is a compromise setup at best. I could not recommend it as a realistic way to put 275s on a car.

You are absolutely and completely correct. The True Turn system will not work on an early Camaro with a 6.25 backspace wheel.
Unless you use a 1/2" wheel spacer, or have a brake system that adds 1/2" per side to the track width...or downsize your wheel/tire package to an 18x8.5 w a 245 tire.
A 6.25" bs wheel WILL resolve any remaining outer fender clearance issues though because , as stated, you won't be able to turn the wheels (much).
As a reference (again), every piece of literature we have ever created indicates a 5.75 backspace wheel to be appropriate.
Thankfully 1723 (and counting) Tru Turn customers have selected the correct backspace wheel. They do not make a lot of noise here because they are busy driving their hotrods.

[bret]

Since wheel/tire fitment is a huge deal...and somewhat misunderstood...and requires some real work to get right, I have listed SOME of the items that affect your outcome:

1. Tire size
2. Tire brand (yes, dimensions vary by manufacturer)
3. Tire age (have you already worn some shoulder off of them?)
4. Wheel width
5. Wheel backspace
6. Spindle selection
7. Brake selection
8. Control arm configuration
9. Alignment settings
10. Ride height
11. Height of body bushings
12. Fender alignment and/or previous damage
13. Dimensional tolerance of reproduction fenders
14. Steering box ratio (how far will your box swing the steering linkage
15. Spring rate/swaybar rste/shock settings (determines how much roll your car may have)
16. Ability of customer to tolerate "a little rub here and there"

i could go on.

This is why fitting the absolute largest tire possible on your car is an exponential amount of work...on everyones part.

[glr0212]

Originally Posted by bret

You are absolutely and completely correct. The True Turn system will not work on an early Camaro with a 6.25 backspace wheel.
Unless you use a 1/2" wheel spacer, or have a brake system that adds 1/2" per side to the track width...or downsize your wheel/tire package to an 18x8.5 w a 245 tire.
A 6.25" bs wheel WILL resolve any remaining outer fender clearance issues though because , as stated, you won't be able to turn the wheels (much).
As a reference (again), every piece of literature we have ever created indicates a 5.75 backspace wheel to be appropriate.
Thankfully 1723 (and counting) Tru Turn customers have selected the correct backspace wheel. They do not make a lot of noise here because they are busy driving their hotrods.

Please tell me how I am supposed to push the tire out another 1/2", Brett? Physically, 5.75" back space won't work on my car. It appears Stove is having rubbing and turn radius issues as well. I think people need to realize that there are limitations and compromises with this setup. For what I spent on this car, the last thing i want to hear is rubbing and grinding of tires as I make a 4 point U-turn. Maybe others are willing to live with that.

I know you are probably frustrated with me for starting this thread, but ultimately I was looking for help and trying to give others some real world feed back on how the setup was working for me. You keep saying that every car is different, and I appreciate that but in reality there are only so many variables. one of the most important is track width. You should be able to tell us what track width your 5.75" BS is based on(58" ? 59? 60? ). Once we know that, intelligent people can then add/subtract the hub dimensions and order their wheels accordingly. Another variable that would be helpful is suggested ride height (using baseline 275/XX tire).

Finally, I am not the only one having issues here. If this setup is only for people that race and autocross, fine. Bad on me for expecting it to work on a driver without what I consider to be significant compromises. In the interest of helping others - Maybe some of the other 1721 customers would be willing to come on here and tell us how they drive their car (driver/autocross/road race), how the setup is working for them in the real world, and what if any modifications they had to make to get everything working to their satisfaction.





final final note - I'll admit that I am not perfect. I could have spent more time dialing in alignment or rolled and cut my inner fender, and even though the system didn't work for me and it cost me money and frustration I do appreciate the efforts Ridetech made earlier in the thread to help resolve my issues. Despite the occasional condescending tone towards me, I don't think that Ridetech is a bad company to deal with or makes a bad product. It just didn't work for me and others should consider more than the marketing hype before investing $4,000 into this setup. There will be compromises and its not a plug and play system, and to their credit, Ridetech never said it was.

[SSLance]

I remember not that long ago I was watching a video of Mark Stielow thrashing Hellfire around a road course and you know what I heard...a tire rub a fender on certain bumps... Several times in fact. I guess it happens to the best of us.

I didn't laugh or look down at him when I heard that, I nodded approvingly... Because I knew he was trying to get everything he could out of the setup and was apparently willing to deal with a rub here or there as a compromise.

IMO, if you are the type of owner or driver that doesn't want to deal with that, put a smaller tire on the car. Or...spend a WHOLE bunch more money on an aftermarket sub frame that will let you run that tire without it rubbing...maybe.

[glr0212]

Rubbing while busting nuts around the race track is different than rubbing while pulling up a drive way into a gas station or burger joint. Mark doesn't seem like a compromise sort of guy, what suspension is he using on the front of his car?

If the tru-turn is for race cars that you trailer to the autocross, so be it. My expectation was that it was going to be 95% usable. For what it costs to buy a full ridetech suspension/steering box/ and then to roll the fenders and cut up the inners - you aren't too far away from what it costs for a full subframe designed for 275 tires.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

What did you end up with Camber #'s on your alignment?

[glr0212]

I started here

Camber -0.48

Caster +3.77

Toe in 0.03"

Then I took some measurements and added shims to get another degree of camber. 1 degree of camber is equal to roughly 0.5" of tire movement at the top. The other issue i had when trying to figure this out was turning radius. Turning radius can be determined by wheel base/tan X, where X equals the max angle the tire can turn from centerline. So a stock chevy camaro can turn roughly 29 degrees which equates a radius of 18.7' or 37.4 feet curb to curb.

With the tru turn i estimated i was going to be somewhere between 22- 24 degrees best case scenario, which is 44 feet curb to curb. Maybe I could live with that if i felt comfortable the tire wasn't going to live on the fender lip.

[Smittys67]

[IMG]FB_IMG_1459385872408.jpg[/IMG]

I guess they fit. Just for the record...all GM metal. Is it a tight fit... sure. The 1969 Camaro is much harder to fit the 275s if you want to run the car low. We used an 18x9.5 wheel with a 5.75 bs. We rounded the corner of the sway bar end to eliminate the rub. Still way cheaper then a Sub Frame.

Ridetech front suspension complete $3150. Uses parts to fit a Camaro headers, brakes steering connection and ect.

Aftermarket Sub Frame $7500 plus headers, engine mounts, brakes ect now we are north of $10000.