1985 Monte Carlo SS known as Barney

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by SSLance

Lance Hamilton just got his StopTech Brakes designed & optimized for Pro-Touring Cars by Ron Sutton Race Technology.

These are the ONLY brake systems that do ALL this:
* Provide more braking force than a ZR1 or C7 Corvette
* Have the most Rigid Calipers, Big Piston Area & 14" Aero Rotors & Hats
* Designed specifically for Manual Brake Pro-Touring Cars doing "Triple Duty"
* Utilizes ONE PAD for Street & Autocross with great cold bite & Track Days up to 1200° with zero fade !!!
* These Pads are new "Adhesive Technology" = low dust, low squeal, long life, low cost AND don't eat up rotors!
* No other brake system on the market today compares

Learn more here: http://www.ronsuttonracetechnology.com/catalog/?page=94

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by FETorino

So it's not done yet? How long before you open the box?

Box... Opened...



Barney is on the now leveled rack, simulated driver weight in front seat, ride heights marked, ready for disassembly tomorrow morning...



First thing with be a test fitment of rotors and calipers installed on new ATS spindles then placed into one of the Forgeline wheels...just to be sure. Then I'll pull the springs off the shocks, pull stock spindles and steering assemblies off and start bolting all the new stuff on.

Plan is to mock all steering stuff in place and spend some time cycling the suspension and getting the bumpsteer and ackerman to Dr Ron's liking...then we'll get busy putting these beautiful new brakes in place.

[bergers59]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

Lance Hamilton just got his StopTech Brakes designed & optimized for Pro-Touring Cars by Ron Sutton Race Technology.

These are the ONLY brake systems that do ALL this:
* Provide more braking force than a ZR1 or C7 Corvette
* Have the most Rigid Calipers, Big Piston Area & 14" Aero Rotors & Hats
* Designed specifically for Manual Brake Pro-Touring Cars doing "Triple Duty"
* Utilizes ONE PAD for Street & Autocross with great cold bite & Track Days up to 1200° with zero fade !!!
* These Pads are new "Adhesive Technology" = low dust, low squeal, long life, low cost AND don't eat up rotors!
* No other brake system on the market today compares

Learn more here: http://www.ronsuttonracetechnology.com/catalog/?page=94

So these are better brakes than aerolites?

[Sieg]

Assuming you have the 309 pads in that box, I'll be interested to hear your opinion. I have Hawk HP+ in the Camaro, ran HPS' in the Miata, and installed the 309's in another car with Brembo calipers and during the aggressive Stop Tech bedding process was very impressed with the pad's feel and performance.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by bergers59

So these are better brakes than aerolites?

The short answer is, "Yes. These StopTech brakes I designed are better than the Wilwood Aerolites. I still like, recommend & sell Wilwood Aerolite 6 brake packages. They are a quality product & the most rigid caliper Wilwood makes. Caliper rigidity is a big deal that the average car guy doesn't understand to look at.

The brake packages I designed utilizing StopTech ST60 calipers front, ST40 calipers rear & Stoptech's lighter, cooler running 14" AeroRotors ... are a higher performing product, with many more benefits & features ... as well as a significantly higher price tag. I didn't design these new brakes to be price competitive. I designed them to be the best possible brakes you can buy for a Pro-Touring car ... especially if the car is also used for autocross & track days.

I feel these two brands of brake products appeal to different customers. The Wilwood Aerolite 6 packages are the "best bang for the buck" and the Stoptech packages I've created are the very highest level of performance braking for Pro-Touring cars.

The long list of Features & Benefits my StopTech systems have over other brake systems are:

• Calipers with more rigidity & less flex than any other caliper available to our market*
• The bridge of the ST60 caliper is so strong & unique it is patented
• The caliper bridge is removable on both ST60 & ST40 calipers for easier brake pad changes
• Firmer pedal feel from the high rigidity calipers = Gives driver better sense of braking degree
• More net braking force per piston area due to less caliper flex
• Much larger piston area / Critical for manual brakes
• Cleaner release of brake pad during hard stopping = Easier to modulate braking force
• Piston dust seals for longer piston life
• Anti-knockback springs behind the pistons = reduces or eliminates knockback
• Floating rotors = reduces or eliminates pad knockback
• Patented Aerovanes built into AeroHats® = pull cool air across the rotor surface
• Patented Aerovanes built into AeroRotors® = pull more cool air through the rotor than any other rotor
• AeroRotors® run 11% cooler than other rotors
• These 14" StopTech AeroRotors® only weigh 16.2#
• That's 2# to 5#lighter for less rotating inertia = Quicker acceleration & stopping
• This Brake system was engineered from scratch 100% for manual brake Pro-Touring cars
• Correctly matched front & rear piston area for balanced front & rear braking
• More braking force (3460#) than a ZR1 Corvette
• This is BIG = One pad works well for Street, Autocross & Road Course Track Days
• The StopTech 309 Pad has great cold bite for autocross & street braking
• The StopTech 309 Pad does dust the wheels / Just less than all other Autocross & Race pads
• The StopTech 309 Pad has very little squeal
• The StopTech 309 Pad will handle up to 1200° of temperature with ZERO fade
• The StopTech 309 Pad will handle up to 1400° of temperature with modest fade
• All other street & autocross pads fade & lose braking force in the 700°-800° range
• The StopTech 309 Pad utilizes modern "Adhesive Technology" where is lays a layer of pad material on the rotor surface to rub against.
• A lot of other brake pads out there utilize "Abrasive Technology" & wear against the rotor ... eating it up.
• The StopTech 309 Pads do NOT eat up your rotors
• The StopTech 309 Pads retail for $120 front & $65 rear = Only $185 total
• The StopTech 309 Pads last like street pads, not race pads
• The StopTech 309 Pad is only a part of the magic. The large piston area, allowed by the rigid calipers combine with these pads to create the awesome braking force & characteristics
• When we run these pads in smaller piston area brake systems, we achieve some of the benefits, but not the total braking force.

Depending on application, we sell the Wilwood Aerolite 6 front brake packages for $1819 to 1899. (Same as Jegs & Summit)
My StopTech front packages run $3295 to $3495, depending on whether the application needs hubs or not.

I didn't list the front hub features above, because some brake packages (like the C5/C6, Speedtech ATS, DSE, Roadster Shop, AME & others utilizing the C5/C6 mounting) don't need hubs. I’ll do that in a separate post.

Continued in the next post.

[Ron Sutton]

I didn't list the front hub features in the previous post, because some brake packages (like the C5/C6, Speedtech ATS, DSE, Roadster Shop, AME & others utilizing the C5/C6 mounting) don't need hubs. For cars with regular spindles that need hubs … read on …

The list of Features & Benefits from the Hubs is pretty impressive too:

• 6061 Billet Aluminum Hubs - CNC machined in USA to ultra precise tolerances
• Much wider flange = Less wheel deflection under cornering loads
• Bigger radius behind the flange = Less wheel deflection under cornering loads
• ARP 3" long x 1/2"-NF (8740 Chromoly) Wheel Studs standard
• Timken Bearings & Races - No Chinese junk
• "Slip Fit" seal design, allows you to remove & replace the seals without tearing them up
• Seals are held in by 3 flange retaining screws (Just like pro race hubs)
• No Stamped Steel Dust Caps to hammer on or pry off!
• Billet Aluminum Dust Caps utilize three screws for easy removal & replacement
• Hubs & dust caps are hard anodized gloss black to look great for a long time
• RSRT designed tab spindle nut washer (Stainless Steel)
• Allows you to set near perfect bearing preload more accurately than the cotter key & castle nut method

We still need to discuss hub bearings. But first we should bring everyone up to speed on the wheel bearing issue.
I almost didn't design hubs & brake kits for several series of Muscle Cars from the 60's & early 70's ... as they came from the factory with tiny outer wheel/hub bearings rated under 1000# for thrust load. Most of you that know me, remember the online discussions we had about these weak, dangerous outer hub bearings a few years ago. I didn’t want to design brakes & hubs for spindle with bearings I knew would fail. Better brakes just adds to the loading.

Most GM, Ford & Mopar muscle cars from the 60’s & 70’s came with outer hub bearings rated at only 917# or 922# of thrust load. Fine ... back in the day ... when these cars came with G70-14 bias ply tires & the cars struggled to pull .8G. Today, with modern tires, suspensions & brakes, we're pulling 1.4G on autocross courses & 1.6-2.0G on road courses. Yes ... in Pro-Touring cars with 315/335 TW200 tires. The thrust loads on the hub bearings are up in the 1200#-1500# range.

Here is a list of cars/spindles/hubs & their outer bearings with thrust load ratings for you to ponder:

Ford/Mercury:

• Fairlane 1966-1969 V8 Drum & All Disc Spindles use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• Falcon/Comet 1963-1969 V8 Drum & All Disc Spindles use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• Granada 1975-1982 uses LM12749 Bearing rated at 921#
• Mustang/Cougar 1964-1969 V8 Drum & All Disc Spindles use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• Mustang BOSS 1969 spindles use M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
• Mustang GT350 & GT500 1970 Spindles use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• Mustang II 1974-1978 uses LM12749 Bearing rated at 921#
• Pinto 1971-1980 uses LM12749 Bearing rated at 921#
• Ranchero 1965-1969 V8 Drum & All Disc Spindles use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• Torino/Cyclone/Montego 1967-1696 Spindles use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#

GM

• A-Body (Chevelle/GTO/442/Skylark) 1964-1972 use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• A-Body (Monte Carlo/Gran Prix) 1970-1972 use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• A-Body (Monte Carlo/Gran Prix/Cutlass/Etc) 1973-1977 use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#

• B-Body (Impala & GM Sisters) 1971-1976 use M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
• B-Body (Impala & GM Sisters) 1977-1989 use M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
  
• Chevy II & Nova 1962-1967 use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• C5 Corvette 1997-2004 uses a Sealed Hub & Bearing rated at 1080#
• C6 Corvette 2005-2013 uses a Sealed Hub & Bearing at 1080#
• C6 Corvette 2008-2013 ZR1-Z06-GS uses a Sealed Hub & Bearing rated at 1515#
• C7 Corvette 2014-Present ALL uses a Sealed Hub & Bearing at 1515#
• C10 Pickup (Chevy & GMC) 1962-1970 use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• C10 Pickup (Chevy & GMC) 1971-1976 use M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
• C10 Pickup (Chevy & GMC) 1977-1976 use M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
• C10 Pickup (Chevy & GMC) 1981-1986 use M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
  
• F-Body (Camaro & Firebird) 1967-1969 use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• F-Body (Camaro & Firebird) 1970-1978 use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• F-Body (Camaro & Firebird) 1979-1981 use M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
  
• F-Body (Camaro & Firebird) 1982-1992 use LM12748/9 Bearing rated at 921#
• F-Body (Z28, IROC-Z & Trans Am) 1988-1992 M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
• G-Body (Monte Carlo/Regal/Cutlass/Gran Prix) ‘79-‘81 use M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
  
• G-Body (Monte Carlo/Regal/Cutlass/Gran Prix) ‘82-‘88 use LM12748/9 Bearing rated at 921#
• X-Body (Nova & GM Sisters) 1968-1974 use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• X-Body (Nova & GM Sisters) 1975-1978 use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• X-Body (Nova & GM Sisters) 1979 Only uses M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#

Mopar:

• A-Body spindles & hubs use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#

Valiant/Lancer/ Barracuda/Duster/Scamp/Dart/Demon

• B-Body spindles & hubs use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#

Savoy/Belvedere/Satellite/GTX/Road Runner/Fury/Polara/Charger/Coronet/Super Bee

• E-Body spindles & hubs use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#

70-70 Cuda & Challenger

Aftermarket Spindles:

• Allstar/Jegs/Summit/Etc G-Body & S10 Clone Spindles use M12649 or M12748

• Art Morrison C6 Spindle uses Sealed Hub & Bearing rated unknown (Inquiry made)
  
• Belltech S10 Dropped Spindles use M12649 or M12748 (Depending on Hub you Use)
• Belltech C10 1981-1986 Dropped Spindles use M12649 Bearing rated at 1130#
• DSE Spindle (C6 Clone) uses Sealed Hub & Bearing rated unknown (Inquiry made)
  
• Magnum Force Mopar 2” Drop Spindles use LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• Mustang II/Pinto Clone and/or Dropped Spindles use LM12749 Bearing rated at 921#
  
• Ridetech Dropped Spindle uses LM11949 Bearing rated at 917#
• Ridetech Modular Spindle uses C7 Sealed Hub & Bearing rated at 1515#
• Roadster Shop Spindle uses Z06 Sealed Hub & Bearing rated at 1515#
• Ron Sutton Race Technology GT & GTR Spindles use #2687 Bearing rated at 1800#
• Speedtech ATS Tall Spindle uses C7 Sealed Hub & Bearing rated at 1515#
• Speedtech ATS ExtReme Spindle uses C7 Sealed Hub & Bearing rated at 1515#
• Wilwood Mustang II Pro Spindle uses LM12749 Bearing rated at 921#
• Wilwood C10 Pro Spindle uses Sealed Hub & Bearing rated unknown (Inquiry made)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, all the listings above in red, I was NOT going to create hubs & brake kits for … unless I could increase the outer hub bearing size & thrust load rating. We did. I worked with Timken bearing engineers & came up with solutions for almost all of them.

Here are the bearings I used, in each hub design for the applications we offer, or will offer our Triple Duty StopTech Brakes Optimized by RSRT.
A. All of the cars & spindles that come with LM12649 outer bearings … simply come with the best LM12649 bearing available … Timken. These are true 1130# thrust load rated, where a lot of off brands & imports do not meet that load rating, or simply don’t have their bearings tested.

B. All of the cars & spindles that come with LM12748/9 outer bearings thrust load rated at 921# … I designed new hubs that allow us to utilize the Timken LM12649 bearing, thrust load rated at 1130#. This increases their thrust load capacity by over 20%.

C. All of the cars & spindles that come with LM11949 Bearing rated at 917# … I designed new hubs that allow us to use the Timken #21075 bearing, thrust load rated at … ready … 2540#. That is not a typo. It is a commonly available Timken automotive bearing. It is bigger, beefier, handles more heat & has bigger rollers with more surface area. When it’s time, you can buy replacement bearings around $20 each. This increases the bearing’s thrust load capacity by over 275%.

D. All cars that utilize the C5/C6/C7 mounting, we simply suggest you utilize the stronger, higher rated C6 ZR1 or C7 hub & bearing versions.

Now a really cool part … my StopTech brake packages with these superior hubs, dust caps, reusable seal mounting, ARP ½” x 3” long studs & strong(er) Timken bearings ONLY add $200 to the cost of a front brake kit!

We do NOT sell these hubs separately (unless you need a replacement). If I did, they would cost $800-900 a pair. So when you’re shopping brakes, compare the big picture & I think you’ll find:

• My StopTech brakes do cost more initially
• They are a superior brake system on many levels
• You won’t have to change brake pads going from street to autocross or track days
• Your pads & rotors will last longer
• Over time, this brake system will actually cost you less

See them HERE ... Call me at 844-722-3832 Ext 3 ... or Email me HERE
- Ron Sutton

Ron Sutton Race Technology
11374 Amalgam Way
Gold River, CA 95630
Website: RonSuttonRaceTechnology.com

[SSLance]

I just can't stop staring at them...







Rotors, calipers and spindles with steering arms reversed all fit beautifully...tons of room everywhere. The dropped adjustable centerlink would not clear the triangulation brace mounting pad and the tie rods ended up being about 2" too short because we flipped the steering arms out to get more ackerman. Longer tie rods are on the way and then I'll get the bumpsteer adjusted and head on to the rear brakes.

Huge thanks to "Ronstar" for being available for several calls along the way today. Just try to reach any other parts supplier or suspension specialist multiple times on a Sunday afternoon!!!

[glassman]

Holy Guacamole Ron. What a detailed answer (copy and paste lol). Seriously though, good stuff, thanx for your commitment to our community.

Lance, you move yet? i miss it?

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by glassman

Lance, you move yet? i miss it?

No not yet, but time is running short. Gotta get this upgrade in before I loose my shop. New one won't be finished until March and I plan on racing all winter long!!!

[carbuff]

Ron,

A couple of questions:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

• Calipers with more rigidity & less flex than any other caliper available to our market*

What is the * asterisk for? I didn't catch it in the followon. And how is this test/proven? I'm sure you've told me before, but I don't recall...

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

• Floating rotors = reduces or eliminates pad knockback

In looking at my rotors/hats, I don't see how the rotors 'float'. In reading StopTech's website, it seems they have a version of the Trophy kit which comes with the floating rotors, but that version doesn't have the piston dust seals. The kit with the seals doesn't have the floating rotors.

Obviously you can assemble these kits however you want I assume. But I cannot tell if/how to identify whether my rotors float? This would be a great feature to help stave off the purchase of a full floater on the rear of my car, although admittedly I haven't yet experienced a real problem with knock back that I'm aware of...

Thanx!