Investing 102

[Vegas69]

My search varied some, but up to 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck or damn close to it.

[WSSix]

I've been hearing people talk about us being in another bubble and that it's only a matter of time before it pops. I'm not surprised people are taking on more debt that they should. We're a very materialistic society. I won't get into that trap. I'm sure someone could show me how I can leverage the cheap lending situation to make more money for myself, but I'm not interested in putting myself at that much risk.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by WSSix

I've been hearing people talk about us being in another bubble and that it's only a matter of time before it pops. I'm not surprised people are taking on more debt that they should. We're a very materialistic society. I won't get into that trap. I'm sure someone could show me how I can leverage the cheap lending situation to make more money for myself, but I'm not interested in putting myself at that much risk.

This is what people don't understand about "leverage" (borrowing and having to pay back that borrowing) -- is the RISK they're assuming. The more stuff people own (the banks own - the people are making payments) the more risk they've taken on -- and when a recession hits - or the company downsizes - or is bought / acquired.... That risk multiplies in a HUGE hurry.

That is when the old saying "cash is king" comes into play! I've made the most money in the biggest downturns. You can get houses cheap - apartments cheap - stocks cheap.... LOL

[Vegas69]

Originally Posted by WSSix

I've been hearing people talk about us being in another bubble and that it's only a matter of time before it pops. I'm not surprised people are taking on more debt that they should. We're a very materialistic society. I won't get into that trap. I'm sure someone could show me how I can leverage the cheap lending situation to make more money for myself, but I'm not interested in putting myself at that much risk.

The value of anything is the life you must exchange for it.

I didn't think of debt or obligations this way until recently in my life. My good buddy had a truck that was paid for or close to it. It was serving him just fine. He went out and bought a brand new truck because he's 51 and just wants to LIVE. (He tends to be a paycheck to paycheck guy) My perspective is now he must work to pay for the truck every month. Debt is really the antithesis of freedom.

I've spent the last 5 years of my life going the opposite way. I've worked continually on putting more margin in my finances and obligations. I've done that by reducing my liabilities(Currently have zero debts) and increasing my income.(Over doubled) I've hired better staff that reduces my work load and figured out what's of greatest importance daily. I say NO more than I ever have.

Focus is the art of figuring out what to say NO to.

The most successful say NO to almost everything. -Warren Buffett

Wealth is a pretty simple formula. The distance between your liabilities and income need to grow. The farther you can live below your means, the faster you will obtain wealth. After all, you must have the capital to take advantage.

I agree with Greg. I used to look at a recession or downturn in a very negative light. Now, I would see it as another opportunity to take advantage of a Spring. BUT, you have to be prepared for a rainy period and that happens over time, not days.

The most money is made with the market is MOST PESSIMISTIC. When the news, your friends, and coworkers are talking about how bad it is, that's your key to start looking for opportunities.

Now, I do still believe in leveraging some real estate with debt. The numbers on an investment property just need to make sense for the long term after counting all the costs.

[GregWeld]

I have never been a fan of gambling with investment dollars. There's so many reasons for this I could write a book -- but #1 being - this (gambling vs investing) is the number one way to shake a newbie out of the game forever....

Is there money to be made taking on something like a Bitcoin? Oh sure there is! Is there money to be made shorting a stock you're sure is headed south? Heck yeah! But this is investing 102... it's about getting started and learning A strategy that will get you in the game and hopefully keep you in the game long term -- and with some success.

Ask yourself --- at what point you'd have put money in Bitcoin only to wake up to a 30 or 40% down move... and tell me straight up you wouldn't have panicked and blown out of the position with a startling loss... Check out this chart -- this is the THIRD time this year already for this stuff. Yeah - just no thanks for this cowboy.


https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachme...1&d=1510581308

[AU Doc]

I'm trying to catch up with this thread, but with over 5,000 posts it's going to take a while. In the mean time, do you guys have any suggestions for investment opportunities outside the stock market? With the meteoric run we've had recently, I'm starting to consider other options to hedge my bets a bit.

I've considered buying some rental property, but when I look at the day-to-day time and cost investment I'm not sure it really makes sense. As mentioned a couple posts back, investing in an property management firm would be a great alternative I hadn't considered, but I'll have to do some research there to better understand just what is required and what the risks are.

Any other suggestions for ways to diversify my retirement package?

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by AU Doc

I'm trying to catch up with this thread, but with over 5,000 posts it's going to take a while. In the mean time, do you guys have any suggestions for investment opportunities outside the stock market? With the meteoric run we've had recently, I'm starting to consider other options to hedge my bets a bit.

I've considered buying some rental property, but when I look at the day-to-day time and cost investment I'm not sure it really makes sense. As mentioned a couple posts back, investing in an property management firm would be a great alternative I hadn't considered, but I'll have to do some research there to better understand just what is required and what the risks are.

Any other suggestions for ways to diversify my retirement package?

You'll find a lot of the posts are redundant --- because "new" people generally ask the same or similar questions --- so much of the info is repetitive.....


So here's an interesting thing --- and you'll see it in here repeatedly..... I love it when people cite the market is "high"..... Go to a charting site such as Google Finance.... Enter SPY - or QQQ (these are the symbols for the Dow and the Nasdaq tracking stocks).... and select the longest length of time the chart will allow (Googles is "ALL").... then come tell me when the market was too high.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here -- my point is that while there are MANY ups and downs in the market ---- the point of this entire thread has been --- get in the market and STAY IN.... because OVER TIME -- the market (chart) is lower on the left and higher on the right.

You'll find this in housing and apartment investing as well.... you'll find it in Bond investing.... you'll find it in EVERY kind of investing. Things go up - things go down - but over time they'll be higher than where they are.

So with that in mind.... what you're really asking for people to do is to tell you where to invest that isn't going down from here. That, my friend, is impossible. You'll see me and others refer to the little man behind the curtain -- he knows when you've bought and he takes whatever you bought and takes it DOWN. LOL it's the way it works. It's a test to see if you're a real believer - or a trader - a weak hand or a strong hand.

I've found that over the last 30 years of my investing life --- when things go to hell -- EVERYTHING sucks. When the market is bad - so is the real estate market... etc. So to-date I've not found a way to be good when things suck. Rich people get richer buying from the weak hands when things suck. They have the ability to have cash on hand and take advantage of those that don't. Sorry to be blunt - but that is the way the world works. Now -- if you think -- well then..... I'll just sit on my cash and wait until the market goes south and then I'll strike. Mark my words -- it will never happen - because if you're afraid to invest now -- you'll be more so when the going gets bad. And in the meantime -- you'll have lost out on the rise in values while you wait.

Here's the way I look at it --- If I buy now - today - at some point I will be bleeding red.... #1 I'm not ever going to be "fully invested" -- I'm always going to have cash reserves.... and if I'm real lucky -- the market will go up from when I buy. Let's say what I bought appreciates 20% -- and then there's a vicious selloff and the market goes down huge - like 10%.... I'd be buying more - and I'd view that as lucky because I get to buy when something went on sale.

So I've just summed up the last 5000 pages for you. LOL

[AU Doc]

Haha! Thanks for the recap!

I started reading this backwards from the newest posts and saw mention of real-estate. It caught my interest because after researching rental properties a few times over the years I've always dismissed the idea as not fitting my investment style. Investing in a management company hadn't occurred to me before, so it's something new to consider.

After that, I went to the beginning of the thread and now I realize the predominant wisdom is more of a buy and hold stocks strategy. Interestingly, that fits pretty well with my investing philosophy. In the last 10 years or so I've probably sold about that many stocks, maybe double that (not counting rebalancing and the like). I still have positions in most of the stocks I've bought over the years. There are a few I should probably ditch, though.

That said, I like to hear what ideas other people have. There are without doubt diversification avenues I haven't considered.

[glassman]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I have never been a fan of gambling with investment dollars. There's so many reasons for this I could write a book -- but #1 being - this (gambling vs investing) is the number one way to shake a newbie out of the game forever....

Is there money to be made taking on something like a Bitcoin? Oh sure there is! Is there money to be made shorting a stock you're sure is headed south? Heck yeah! But this is investing 102... it's about getting started and learning A strategy that will get you in the game and hopefully keep you in the game long term -- and with some success.

Ask yourself --- at what point you'd have put money in Bitcoin only to wake up to a 30 or 40% down move... and tell me straight up you wouldn't have panicked and blown out of the position with a startling loss... Check out this chart -- this is the THIRD time this year already for this stuff. Yeah - just no thanks for this cowboy.


https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachme...1&d=1510581308

Is what you meant by "cowboy", riding the bull? up and down and thrown off...

[glassman]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

The value of anything is the life you must exchange for it.

I didn't think of debt or obligations this way until recently in my life. My good buddy had a truck that was paid for or close to it. It was serving him just fine. He went out and bought a brand new truck because he's 51 and just wants to LIVE. (He tends to be a paycheck to paycheck guy) My perspective is now he must work to pay for the truck every month. Debt is really the antithesis of freedom.

I've spent the last 5 years of my life going the opposite way. I've worked continually on putting more margin in my finances and obligations. I've done that by reducing my liabilities(Currently have zero debts) and increasing my income.(Over doubled) I've hired better staff that reduces my work load and figured out what's of greatest importance daily. I say NO more than I ever have.

Focus is the art of figuring out what to say NO to.

The most successful say NO to almost everything. -Warren Buffett

Wealth is a pretty simple formula. The distance between your liabilities and income need to grow. The farther you can live below your means, the faster you will obtain wealth. After all, you must have the capital to take advantage.

I agree with Greg. I used to look at a recession or downturn in a very negative light. Now, I would see it as another opportunity to take advantage of a Spring. BUT, you have to be prepared for a rainy period and that happens over time, not days.

The most money is made with the market is MOST PESSIMISTIC. When the news, your friends, and coworkers are talking about how bad it is, that's your key to start looking for opportunities.

Now, I do still believe in leveraging some real estate with debt. The numbers on an investment property just need to make sense for the long term after counting all the costs.

Man i Love this Todd. SOOOO true, although, i must admit, i do fall from it from time to time. But def ain't living paycheck to paycheck.

I've got two great things i've learned here over the last few years: How divi's really work (absolutely never even heard of that before) AND in a down turn things "are on sale", I can seriously thank Greg for that, maybe even both.

Working on paying off the house (which is worth 1.1 at the moment, but i think its a 400k house at best lol). But hey, i have three places to leave a sh_t (you don't take one, you leave one) and running water. Perspective.

cheers, mike