mild corner car

[GM Muscle]

Originally Posted by David Pozzi

The recomendations are good.
All I would add is you need to run about 5 degrees of positive caster and can probably only achieve 3 deg positive with stock upper arms even with the Guldstrand mod.

Consider either making your own upper arms with more caster built in, or relocate your upper A arm brackets about 7/8" to the rear and use your stock arms.

Other things I like are
AFCO delrin A arm bushings I don't know if these have the side "washers" that a Global West bushing kit would have. You might be able to make some.
Stock car stock appearing coils, 5" OD X 9.5" tall. Use a threaded adjuster on top, cut it to fit your upper spring pocket taper.

I don't have a big block spring bar setup but the tuners like Guldstrand or Hotchkis would probably use a 650 front coil rate and a 175lb/in rear leaf rate. Stock is 325/110.

You can drop the front rate for a better ride but 550 is probably minimum unless you just cruse it. A lot depends on horsepower, tire size, and how agressive you want to drive it. Also, the lower you go with the ride height, the stiffer your springs have to be.

A small block Camaro is going to need a 1" solid bar up front and depending on rear spring rate, some kind of rear bar.
David

haha.. man i printed about 40 pages off your site and the guldstrand mod looks to be the way to go! im gonna give it a shot for sure..

what do you think about the afco upper a arms? i noticed they sell a 4bolt style ball joint to go with them which is supposed to raise the roll center.. at 45bucks a peice i thought id give them a try.. you think they would work ok with the GuldMod? the part number is ss101-100 and the ball joint is af20032-1..

i looked through smileys catalog today and didnt see the afco delrin bushings just solid steels that i was gonna hone out and press some delrin in.. ill do a little more research.. i did see they had the springs your talking about and the adjusters.. and i also agree with the spring rates.. whats your take on the afco shocks.. i noticed you could get different valving..

[GM Muscle]

Originally Posted by sinned

Either are very good. A set of spec'd Bilsteins is not a better option than a set of spec'd Konis, just a different option.

im going to do a little more research on both brands and see what i come up with.. thanks guys..

[David Pozzi]

I can't find ss101-100 on their site, is that an AFCO part number?
I'm not aware of an arm they make to fit a Camaro.

The balljoint AF20032 I did find but not AF20032-1. AF20032 is a second gen stock balljoint which is 10 deg taper not 7 deg which is what you need.

Generally a late 60's pickup UBJ is used by circle trackers as a tall UBJ. The problem with that is, the bolt pattern is similar to a first gen but it's larger and requires your stock arm to be sectioned and a new balljoint seat welded in. Many of the AFCO upper arms take this larger balljoint so stock balljoints may not bolt in. You need to make sure what size UBJ the arms will take. Also the arms appear to be flat so they may not have the correct angle for the ball joint.
I'd be cautious is what I'm trying to say. Their arms look nice but there can be drawbacks. I don't see any that have enough caster built-in.

If you buy Delrin (Acetal) get the stronger "reinforced" Delrin which has Fiberglass in it. But when you machine it, wear a mask and it'll be itchy to handle the shavings.
David

[GM Muscle]

Originally Posted by David Pozzi

I can't find ss101-100 on their site, is that an AFCO part number?
I'm not aware of an arm they make to fit a Camaro.

The balljoint AF20032 I did find but not AF20032-1. AF20032 is a second gen stock balljoint which is 10 deg taper not 7 deg which is what you need.

Generally a late 60's pickup UBJ is used by circle trackers as a tall UBJ. The problem with that is, the bolt pattern is similar to a first gen but it's larger and requires your stock arm to be sectioned and a new balljoint seat welded in. Many of the AFCO upper arms take this larger balljoint so stock balljoints may not bolt in. You need to make sure what size UBJ the arms will take. Also the arms appear to be flat so they may not have the correct angle for the ball joint.
I'd be cautious is what I'm trying to say. Their arms look nice but there can be drawbacks. I don't see any that have enough caster built-in.

If you buy Delrin (Acetal) get the stronger "reinforced" Delrin which has Fiberglass in it. But when you machine it, wear a mask and it'll be itchy to handle the shavings.
David

they were just universal control arms.. ill pass on them.. where do you reccomend looking for the 7 degree taper.. does moog offer them? all the part numbers i go were out of a smileys racing catalog.. im was hoping some one sold just delrin bushing inserts but i cant find them so im just gonna buy a stick and machine them down.. ive also herd of several ppl just running solid upper bushings with the delrin insterts in the just the lowers.. whats your take on this.. i tried to register over at the camaro site but for some reason i never got the confirmation email..

[GM Muscle]

www.smileysracing.com

[David Pozzi]

AFCO makes a "lightweight lower A arm bushing that is Delrin, but I don't know if they have the uppers.
Lowers for chevelle, should fit Camaro: http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...&ProductID=787

These are solid uppers that may fit: http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...&ProductID=792

You could bush these with delrin I guess. I ran the Guldstrand solid upper bushings on my 67 and they were fine.

The AFCO "offset" arms could be used, but they require new frame mounts that have the proper hole spacing, and the mounts would have to be positioned to the rear quite a bit because their A arms are not as offset as the stock arms.

You don't need taller upper balljoints if you do the Guldstrand mod.
If you did want taller upper balljoints, Mark at SC&C has some made by Howe that are beautiful. The Truck upper balljoint I mentioned requires not only the wider bolt pattern in the A arm, but the tapered hole in your spindle needs to be reamed larger. Not a lot of fun to do in a hard spindle, and not needed with the Gmod.

David

[GM Muscle]

ok.. i think im just gonna try the solid uppers out.. but i was under the impression that the "light weight" bushings were nylon.. i think ill just wait and save up for the control arms now.. ive been studying your spring rate page and want to throw a little money that direction anyways..

im gonna go with the 9.5 inch spring and an adjuster.. solid uppers.. delrin lowers.. koni's all 4 corners.. delrin rear bushings.. iroc steering box.. guldstrand mod.. box my factory control arms.. 99 camaro discs all the way around.. integrated subframe connectors.. 1" front sway bar.. no rear sway bar.. 45 series tires on 17 inch rims... and if my wallet allows it hotchkis rear leafs..

whats your take on rear shock location and angle for touring?

thank you everyone for all the help so far..

[David Pozzi]

You are going to need tubular upper arms to achieve enough positive caster. Global West arms are pretty cheap if you get them bare. You need the type of cross shaft that has male studs on each end, not bolts, - the bolt type will come loose.

Yes the "lightweight" lower bushings are Delrin.

A rear antiroll bar may be needed if you use a rear leaf spring in the 175 lb range. If you go with a 250 lb rear spring, you probably won't need the rear bar. This assumes you have close to 700 lb front coils, and a 1" solid front bar or 1 1/8" hollow front bar.

If your horsepower is 500+, then the 250 rear leaf package may be better.

I'm less happy with Hotchkis leafs after using them on my wifes second gen. The pinion angle went way off when we installed them and I had to use 8 degrees of shims on the axle to get it corrected.
We just installed Global West 240lb leaf springs and only had to use a 2 deg shim.

The Hotchkis did ride pretty well and would make most people happy as far as rate, but we open track and autocross this car a LOT and felt like we needed to try a step stiffer.
David