The "solution" is to install a sump in your tank - or switch to a tank with a sump.
I have an Accel Gen 7 system... and my tank is a Rock Valley SS 25 gallon custom version I had built... BUT at the time I was running a carb...
When I switched to EFI I put a bung in the bottom of the tank... and you'll get a good laugh at this - I put it at the FRONT of the tank and it should have been at the BACK of the tank (you can coast downhill but need fuel to go up a hill... right?). So I pulled the tank, YESTERDAY, as a matter of fact - to install a sump at the REAR where it should be and I should have done this 5 years ago. I've been very careful to not run the tank below about HALF so that I don't suck air.. or if I head up a steep grade - I don't uncover the pickup point in a low fuel situation. DUMB of me... but I'm fixing that now.
THE EZ EFI is assuming you're going to use the stock factory fuel tank - and it has a draw from the bottom of the tank (like a straw in a glass)... and you add a return 'port' (thru the sender which can be taken out of the tank cleaned and welded on or drilled etc). Their kit has an IN LINE fuel pump and filter... but you're going to have to plumb in a return line. THE RETROTEK/PROJECTION system uses a pump controller - and is returnless... because they just crank down the pressure when idling etc...
Not only that, but I don't think it support it in terms of air. In our tests we ran out of air before we ran out of fuel.
The butterflies measure 1 3/4" which is pretty large, 1 11/16" is pretty common on a Holley carb around 750 = 800. There are no venturi's or boosters so I think the throttle body flows air pretty well when compared to an average carb. Inglese uses this system in a Weber carb look-alike system using 8 injectors. I would think you could use the current air valve and add 8 injectors to a carb type intake and get more even fuel distribution. You can also run dual throttle bodies on a tunnel ram or cross ram.
We've been using the EzEFI for a couple of weeks and the only issue has been a little rough running until warm. There are no cold start or cold running tuning options for this system, so the only option to fool with is the target idle air fuel ratio.
By rough running, I mean after a cold night you can reach in and start the car, it runs a little rough and can die once or twice, then keeps running and get's smoother once warmed up. When warm there are no issues at all.
Things I'm trying are different target air fuel for idle, and higher idle speed setting. I also did not connect the power wires to the battery as the instructions said to do in bold print, I moved them and it got better. They say to observe TPS volts at idle and if you see any variation, it indicates interference perhaps from the power supply connections if not connected directly to battery. I connected to the power junction right next to the battery on the radiator support, did not see any variation of TPS signal, but DID see a flicker on the rpm signal. I also moved the tach wires as far away from the spark plug wires as possible.
What is your idle speed? The video makes it sound really "high" and I'm sure it's not.
I just ordered the EZ EFI ECM with harness etc for my Nomad... I'm switching it over from the Accel Gen 7. I'm running an 8 stack EFI from Imagine Injection and they (Fast) are now selling this set up separate from Inglese -- so you can use any manifold... It should be interesting. I've always been pretty happy with the Accel... with the exception of their poorly constructed Dual Sync distributor. But mostly I just like the fact that this system is pretty hands off... and trust me when I tell you -- I've spent about a bazillion dollars on "tuners" -- each guy thinking the other was an idiot... and I'm real tired of that whole "mess". 10 years of that... I'm done. Let the computer do the talking!
The butterflies measure 1 3/4" which is pretty large, 1 11/16" is pretty common on a Holley carb around 750 = 800. There are no venturi's or boosters so I think the throttle body flows air pretty well when compared to an average carb. Inglese uses this system in a Weber carb look-alike system using 8 injectors. I would think you could use the current air valve and add 8 injectors to a carb type intake and get more even fuel distribution. You can also run dual throttle bodies on a tunnel ram or cross ram.
We've been using the EzEFI for a couple of weeks and the only issue has been a little rough running until warm. There are no cold start or cold running tuning options for this system, so the only option to fool with is the target idle air fuel ratio.
By rough running, I mean after a cold night you can reach in and start the car, it runs a little rough and can die once or twice, then keeps running and get's smoother once warmed up. When warm there are no issues at all.
Things I'm trying are different target air fuel for idle, and higher idle speed setting. I also did not connect the power wires to the battery as the instructions said to do in bold print, I moved them and it got better. They say to observe TPS volts at idle and if you see any variation, it indicates interference perhaps from the power supply connections if not connected directly to battery. I connected to the power junction right next to the battery on the radiator support, did not see any variation of TPS signal, but DID see a flicker on the rpm signal. I also moved the tach wires as far away from the spark plug wires as possible.
Here's a video I did of cold startup.
Hi David,
What are you using for ignition components?
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Greg, do you think welding in a sump to our stock first gen tank is adequate? I know it'll be 'covered' more often than the factory pick-up, but would it still uncover under normal aggressive street driving/cornering at speed with less than a quarter tank?
I can't decide what to do. I want to run EFI, but I have heard that on the Spectra tanks the sender is in the return sump so it always shows a half tank of fuel until all of the sudden you run out!
There is a large gas tank repair shop here in town that would weld in a sump and seal my tank. I wonder if they could weld in some baffles on either side of the sump to keep fuel in that area under cornering.
Greg, do you think welding in a sump to our stock first gen tank is adequate? I know it'll be 'covered' more often than the factory pick-up, but would it still uncover under normal aggressive street driving/cornering at speed with less than a quarter tank?
I can't decide what to do. I want to run EFI, but I have heard that on the Spectra tanks the sender is in the return sump so it always shows a half tank of fuel until all of the sudden you run out!
There is a large gas tank repair shop here in town that would weld in a sump and seal my tank. I wonder if they could weld in some baffles on either side of the sump to keep fuel in that area under cornering.
Well -- let's first establish that I am no "expert" on this - or any other subject for the matter... LOL
A "new" OEM factory EFI car uses an in-tank pump with a "sock" filter over the pickup tube - and they all have some fashion of a built in "sump". I was helping a buddy on his El Camino tank the other day - we were replacing the stock pump. This tank had a PLASTIC sump that oriented the sock and pickup tube. I was surprised at how shallow it was... maybe only an inch deep... and it sat in a baffled area in the bottom of the tank.
What I'm going to do is to ADD ON a sump -- after I cut some holes into the bottom of the existing tank (probably a series of half inchers) - so the fuel will fall into the sump area. So the sump will be a "wart" on the bottom of the tank. I will install weld in bung at the bottom REAR of this sump area for the fuel outlet. So if I build the sump 10" wide (side to side) and build it so that it is a triangle shape (looking at it from the side) tapering from the front area and getting deeper at the back -- figure I'll drop it 3 or so inches at the pickup point... BY THE WAY -- they sell a pre made sump like this at Summit Racing - but they're just steel - but poke around their site and you'll see what I'm making. I'll do mine custom (I like building stuff like this!) out of SS to match my tank...
NOW -- Second issue -- AERATION of the fuel from the return line.... this is B A D... You don't want to be creating a "fountain effect" in the fuel tank... and making pretty little bubbles... which will then get sucked up in the pump. Pumps like liquid and not air! LOL --- so I'd put the "return line" as your old abandoned pick up line... it should be inserted into the tank near the bottom... and thus = should be covered by fuel most all the time... and shooting the fuel at the bottom should keep if from causing this problem.
Place the SUMP/PICKUP area away from the "return" fuel.... most of the old stock tanks pick up fuel from the center area of the tank -- so if that's your return - then you add a sump at the very rear bottom of the tank - you should be golden.
Maybe some others will pick up on this thread and correct any - or add to any - info I'm providing.
That is helpful. I looked into the Competition Engineering sump (likely the one at Summit). They instruct to drill 5 2.5" holes allowing the fuel to drop. I've wondered if smaller holes would allow better retention of fuel in the sump. The sump is 3" deep at the rear, and spans 11" x 7" or so. I would think this is a large enough area to create a 'pool' in the bottom of the tank to keep the pickup covered most of the time. With 3" sides near the back, I would think it would hold enough for most situations on the street.
This sounds similar to what you'll be doing. I'd probably keep 1/4 tank of fuel in as much as possible, again, this is a street only car.
I would then turn my old pick-up into the return, and install a vent somehow.
This, of course, is if I pony up and buy the EFI in the first place
That type "sump" is exactly what I was discussing. I'm surprised at that large of a hole... but they may want them that large so that the fuel doesn't JUMP the holes as you go with side forces etc... too small of a whole and the fuel could just skip right over it.
I haven't researched that yet - and would do so BEFORE I start my mods. My original thought was to "fill" the area covered by the sump with .5 or .75 holes... so it'd look like swiss cheese but still have "some" structure. I have some very cool Hougen RotaCut Broaches from 5/16" up to 3"... and they'll eat stainless all day and make a perfect undistorted hole. So I can make the proper size and pattern for whatever is recommended.
Greg,
Lots went wrong on that one, like the hood going closed, and I didn't zoom back enough to show the handheld controller, also got too far from the camera and it didn't pick up my voice when I was over by the car but I only got one chance to do it when the engine was cold so that's all you get!
Idle was at 800 because I had it at 750 and it was struggling when cold. I have started it up cold 2 or 3 times since this vid and it hasn't quit like it did in the video.
The car came to us with an HEI distributor crammed in against the firewall, they had to beat it in to make enough room. I like HEI's but don't like a dented in firewall. I can barely get the air cleaner on.
David
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