3 link suspension - Page 10 - Lateral-g Forums

iapitapun · #91 10-28-2005, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mean 69

A bending moment is present anytime a link is subject to a force that is not purely compressive/tensile (let's forget about torsion for the moment).

You cannot react a moment through a rod end. So, there is no bending moment. Example. Fix your link to a wall and hang off the end. That is a bending moment. When you hang on the link it bends. Now take the attachment at the wall and replace it with a spherical bearing. Then hang on it. First you won't be able too because it will slam down parallel to the wall. No bending. About the only think the link can do is buckle under axial loading. That's it.

As for the other stuff, thanks for the answers. I will just leave it at that. I never wanted a spreadsheet. Just ranges. So if you took the lowest AS, ride height, etc and then the highest. That is all I wanted to know.

I would concentrate on SEMA. It is quickly approaching. I will monitor this thread. Posting will become more infrequent. I get the feeling I am not welcome here.

One point of advice. Watch all your friends on this board. If people start flocking here to check out this new suspension. They may scare them off. Your friends will buy it because they know you and have tracked your efforts. Customers A-X, do not know you and will ask similar questions, probably more probing. I myself had more questions, but they can wait.

I am not 100% satisfied with the tech brought forth, but I will refrain from final judgement until SEMA is over. Your efforts should be placed on that rather than this for now.

sinned · #92 10-28-2005, 08:08 AM

Vince, I was being a jerk. Of course I know what the unknown keyboard bandit is talking about but anti-lift is not tecnical measurement that can be made but rather a conclusion that is drawn based on how short the SVSA is. I just figured since "he", who he is, is being an azz (IMO) and I jumped at the chance to be a smart azz.

BTW, iapaitapun, I have spent the last 2 decades dealing with vendors and design engineers in the automotive world on a daily basis. Mark has brought forth 100X the tech any other vendor would. 99% of the time the response would have been "if you want all those answers buy it and measure it all yourself".

68protouring454 · #93 10-28-2005, 08:31 AM

someone should find who and where this dude is from, how do you track an ip address ??
hero for sure
jake

iapitapun · #94 10-28-2005, 09:20 AM

I really don't get it. At the core of my posts is tech? What is wrong with that? You know someone mentioned CC earlier. At least there you can get tech. I realize you all love Mark and you want him to succeed. Not everyone knows him.

So I guess the focus of this board is to track IP addresses because I ask some technical questions. I hope you don't treat all new members like this. Quite simpley I asked soild tech questions that had answers. Sorry for the questions. I will ask no more. So, you all won.

Good luck.

**camcojb** · #95 10-28-2005, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iapitapun

I really don't get it. At the core of my posts is tech? What is wrong with that? You know someone mentioned CC earlier. At least there you can get tech. I realize you all love Mark and you want him to succeed. Not everyone knows him.

Good luck.

You've mentioned corner carvers twice as a good place to get questions and tech answered. I would say that site is the worst place for a new guy to come into for answers. They treat people with a level of disrespect that is famous on the internet. If a person asks a question that they deem stupid they are all over him. Do an internet search on that site, you'll get tons of posts about how they treat people over there who need info.

Do they know what they're doing? Absolutely, but it is definitely not for the faint of heart!

Jody

68protouring454 · #96 10-28-2005, 12:09 PM

why not introduce yourself, you are right we are a tight nit group here, and would you open up to a stranger?? probaly not, as jody said cc is a hardcore site, that does not lend well to newbies, you seem to know rear susp,, but.... jake

Mean 69 · #97 10-28-2005, 01:31 PM

Except that the link is not free on both ends. Perhaps there is a more collegiately acceptable term that I am mixing up here. Take the same example, but now place the other end on a different immovable wall. You can use rod ends, solid ends, it doesn't matter because at that instant, it is a static system. Place one end of the link higher than the other. Do not allow either end to move vertically up or down, and push the walls together. The force direction will be at an angle relative to the centerline of the tube, and therefore not purely tensile/compressive. Perhaps the "buckling" term is more acceptable?

I really don't mind the tech questions at all, but to state that "all" you wanted was tech info is not true, and to further state that you got "no" tech as a result of your questions is ludicrous. You first sought to discredit myself and my team because don't have "degrees in suspension engineering." Well, last I looked, this was not a discipline that was offered. I doubt very much that you learned everything you needed to apply to real world problems, that is, if you have indeed engineered solutions to problems, I'll assume you have. Let me give an example, the sharpest optical engineer that I ever had work for me never studied optics in school. He received his PhD in Physical Chemistry, and taught himself optics. Smart people can learn beyond what the diploma on their wall suggests they may know. A statement like "you aren't even a suspension engineer, nor an engineer for that matter," would only come from an engineer that feels he/she knows more than anyone that doesn't have a degree. You should be proud that you finished a graduate education, good for you, honestly. A degree doesn't make you able to solve all problems, and not having one (which I do, by the way, in one of the hardest technical disciplines) further doesn't mean that you can't.

I can assure you that not everyone on internet forums "loves" me. Lateral Dynamics was not formed to "make us rich and sell lots of stuff." There are far easier ways to make a lot of money than this business, I can assure you. If I wanted lots of money, I would have stayed in corporate America and sucked up, but that is not something that I am capable of. All we want is to help cool people with cool projects, and have fun with it all, this is pure honesty.

That you won't even tell people your name, what kind of car you have, or anything leads me to believe that you are not an interested customer, and that's fine. Regardless, here are the "numbers."

The most challenging situation is the lowest ride height example, using something similar to the Mule, with a slight rake, this is what we offer. At a 6" rear subframe height, in the "nominal" position for the control arms, the SVSA is 68.5". Anti-squat is 59.8%. Roll steer with the lowest possibly RRCH is 1.03% roll Understeer. In the nominal control arm setting, roll steer range can go as high as just over 6% roll understeer (by raising the RRCH). At this ride height, SVSA can go as high as just over 100", to as short as just over 60". Resultant A/S numbers are 26.5%, and 64.1%, respectively (I over-stated A/S numbers previously by approximately 10%, forgive me).

Again, A/S numbers were derived using a conservative CG of ~19". For more direct comparison withother suppliers, using a 17" CG, the resulting A/S numbers are 65.9%, 29.6%, and 71.6%.

We really would love to meet you, so if you attend the SEMA show, please be sure to stop by and introduce yourself. We will be at booth #52425.

Kind Regards,
Mark

Musclerodz · #98 10-28-2005, 01:47 PM

If you eliminate the crap in this thread there is excellent info for those of us who do not completely understand suspension theory.

You are welcome here and most of us are alway eager to learn something new. I think the issue is you walked in here like you would at CC.com and put eveyone on the defensive. It would be nice to know who you are and what you are working on so we could get to know you better. Sorry if you think what has been given is beneath your knowledge base, but for the rest of us, we are always happy to get it because it doesn't happen very often anymore. All numbers do is confuse most of us and are purely hypothetical until you put it on a track and prove it. I don't know Mark or Katz personally, but I do know they won't be happy until this setup is the best on the market.

Mike

TBART70 · #99 10-28-2005, 07:15 PM

Fantastic post, trying to learn as much as possible from all of the knowledgable people out there. Already have a rear suspension designed by Katz, tri-4bar, hoping in the future to chat with him about it, and ask someone on all of the boards to try to tell me what the geometry of my front Martz chassis has. possibly a way to make it better if not that good to begin with.

68protouring454 · #**100** 11-06-2005, 01:48 AM

so did you stop by at sema with measuring tape??
how was mark??? was he not able to answer any questions and prove design???
mark and lateral d crew had an incredibal turn out at the show and it will not be long before you see some serious products out of these guys, by the way who are all awesome in person. i had the priviledge to meet them all and hang out, and they are all stand up guys, who know there ****