Getting ripped off by thieves and vendors (Sometimes at the same time)

[ProdigyCustoms]

Originally Posted by garickman

I don't understand why it is time to move on. Why can't Frank just answer one simple question. He brags that he has over 1000 happy customers so that justifies the handful of people that he has ripped off for thousands of dollars, putting people through unwanted stress, causing projects to be delayed for weeks, months and in a few cases over a year. It isn't like these problems just crept up, it has been on going for a couple of years.

In the meantime he throws it in everybody's face that he is debt free with no mortgage payment, credit card or car payments. I would be debt free too if I was using someone elses money to pay all my bills. I have ordered through Frank before and although I got my item it took forever and I had to make many phone calls. I hear everyone defend him and say he is a nice guy. Sure he is a nice guy, have you ever met a con-artist that was an a-hole. The defination of a con-artist is a person adept at lying, cajolery, or glib self-serving talk, a person adept at swindling by means of confidence. Let the man explain himself.

Greg, I do not understand where you vengence comes from. You ordered your stuff and got it in 2 weeks later? Is that forever for a build item?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Originally Posted by ErikLS2

I'd like to hear Frank answer Jody's question too. I'm another one, ordered my Vaporworx tank, got a good deal, waited a couple months at least and nothing. Called Hector, he had no record of the order, and I had my tank in a couple weeks. I would just like the question to be answered already.

So Erik, that was in September 2010, long time ago. I do not even remember that deal or what happened. It was so long ago I cannot remember. But I do remember that was during a sale when I had a bunch of orders working.

I just reviewed you account and do have tracking for your other 2 invoices and they look like were prompt.

1 of of 3 is NOT a acceptable ratio, but it is almost 2 years old right now.

[Vegas69]

As the old saying goes, "You can't please everybody".

You naturally have more complaints due to your volume but they also tend to be really pissed off.

A couple suggestions:
Get an order system that automatically reminds your company to follow up with the manufacturer/customer. Take notes in the system.

If you take an order from a customer and you need to sell 5 kits to honor that price, disclose it up front. Don't hold onto their money for a month while you make your quota. I can see why people get pissed. It's basically a bait and switch.

Clearly we've done more business over the years than most. You have always taken good care of me. I just feel it's important for me to state my opinion for the future of your business than sit on the sideline. With that being said, I called and emailed you to buy a replacement radiator and ended up going through another vendor here on Lat G due to no response. If you're not servicing one of your best customers, you are doing something seriously wrong. You clearly need somebody else answering the phones and responding to emails. You can't be everything to everybody.

[ProdigyCustoms]

So again, this is the essential problem with this thread theory. I have to defend things that happened 2 years ago. And defend things that did not happen. And am spending 2 days thinking of a way I can answer this without fueling the fire even more. Because I can list the facts, acceept responsibilty and it won't end.

I am forced to divulge details about our finances, business model, to defend things a coupe years old.

Again, this thread is between me and Doug. At at the end of the day, even though Doug called me out in public, I will still help him going forward and I am 100% certain he will need some level of help going forward. And I will still be there for him.

The moderated one on one thread idea is so much better.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by ProdigyCustoms

Jody, I have taken my time answering this thread initially, and then after your response because I can give a dozens reason why this has happened on SOME orders and no matter what I say it will just fuel the fire. I could throw a employee under the bus, complain about being to busy, blame it on the way payments are received, blame it on bulk purchases, blame it on group buy, blame it on timing orders, blame it on automatic order system failures.

It does not matter what reason I give, I can break down every scenario as I have here and in the past and whatever that answer is will still be seen as BS by my witch hunters here. In the past I have accepted responsibility and explained every problem in detail only to get absolutely mugged for say "I screwed up"

How many orders is it? 10?50? 100? orders. We do THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of orders! And when I point that out someone jumps in and says I am bragging. Just last night I got my dinner completely botched at one of our favorite most consistent restaurants.

I cannot answer this and win. I try to give comfort in the fact we are debt free so people are comfortable we will be here tomorrow, and I get my head ripped off for bragging about being debt free.

I get accused of ripping people off but there is not a single documented case of someone getting ripped off and NOT getting what they paid for. Not one person has never gotten what they paid for.

I will tell you this, it is a small percentage of our orders. I will also tell you that not many people run out an brag about things that go as they as supposed to go, as expected. Not many people go into work and brag, "Just want to let everyone know I got my Egg McMuffin in 2 minutes this morning just like I was supposed to". But if someone gets their Egg McMuffin in 20 minutes that guy will bitch and bitch and bitch. Now if you combine that basic thought process and create a atmosphere where people are allowed to back slapped for saying something positive, like here on this forum, it makes it even more unlikely anyone will say anything. I have emails and text for people saying. i still love you man! hold you head up, but they are afraid to speak up because they will get mugged!

And I see you deleted Ummgawa's post, but when the moderators lead the mugging like they have in the past, they are leading the choir!

And you Jody in particular are 100% blaming me for something that is 100% not true and not as you state it to be, And I have emails to back it up. But you are carrying a torch for me for something that did not happen.

Jody, how many other orders did you and I do that went just fine?

So I will TRY to explain how someone can order something and the PO not be sent but the card is charged. This is a PERFECT example that can documented right here and now. I will give you a perfect example of how this can happen. The nicest guy in the world has posted in this thread a couple times and had a problem order he has not mentioned, in fact he has tried to slow the flame without bringing it up.

Lenie came to visit us at out new shop. Wanted to see the shop, wanted to buy some stuff while he was here. He hung out and we talked for a couple hours, My phone blowing up like it does all day, me answering every call all the while. Lenie commented many times on how amazing it is I take everyone calls, he stuck through it. All of a sudden Lenie has to go, we realize time is up, I also have to leave, Lenie wants to order some stuff real quick before he goes.

I write a hand written note, 10 items, multiple manufacturers. Give him some pricing, Lisa runs the card while Lenie is there, we all leave at the same time. hand written note on my desk. Lenie calls 2 weeks later, just checking on my stuff. Oh ****, where is that note? Can't find it. Find it 2 weeks later under a chair in my office, ceiling fan must have blown it off. Frank TOTALLY forgets because it is not in his face Monday morning. Call Lenie, Lenie is cool. We start getting his stuff to him, but I send Lenie a 69 dash instead of a 67 dash. Lenie calls, OK, I will handle it, phone rings. That gets forgotten.

BUT, 2 weeks later I DO remember literally in the middle of the night and write to Lenie, Lenie, I forgot about your dash. Lenie handled it direct with the company with out me even knowing. The point is WHEN I remembered, I tried to fix it right away.

So how does it happen. I wrote a hand written note, leave, lose, forget, transposed one digit and sent a 69 instead of a 67. In the end Lenie got everything he was supposed to get. And I think he is to nice a guy to mention he was not THRILLED with the way it went down, but I THINK he also understands how it happened as he was wittiness to just how busy we get. Lets forget the fact that I was probably the only person on the planet capable of specking out some parts of Lenie's order. Lets forget the fact I actually had living projects available for him to see exactly what he was wanting.

Let me tell you something else. A year ago there was a thread about not getting what boiled down to a transmission kit. It was the huge thread I said, oops, tried to time the order and no trans was available. No matter how hard i tried to accept responsibility, I got mugged! Well needless to say i jumped all over getting that transmission problem fixed. The OP was privy to every email between me and the supplier going forward. I specifically asked that this kit go complete, as it is too hard to chase little parts that do not show up to drop ships. Trans kit ships, shows up missing 4 or 5 parts. Send a note, 3 of 5 parts ship. It took 6 weeks to finalize that order and no matter how hard I tried I could not make it end. And the customer was courtesy copy on every email. When it was all done I said, OK, so you have got a snapshot of how damn difficult this can be sometimes. He never came back in and said ya know, I can see how this can happen. It is not the nature of the beast. But at the end of the day there was a SPECIFIC reason I had not sent that trans kit.

I will tell you another thing. There was another customer that jumped on that thread, has a almost identical problem, ripped my head off and pucked down my throat. And rightfully so. In the meantime in the year past I have made constant contact with that customer, checking up on him, seeing if things were OK, how his project was going. A issue came up he DID NOT mention to me 6 months later, I saw it in a post (Not in a negative way) hi m trying to solve the problem on his own. I found out it was something my supplier did wrong. I sent parts, and gave credit to cover the labor. I have bent over backwards after he blew my head off on the thread to give service after the sale, me initiating the service. It would have been real easy to bail on that one. Not many people get their ass whipped and come around seeing if they can help after the fact. And I do not expect him to say something, but you do not see him chiming in saying, got to hand it to Frank, he sees things through.

So in the end, it is a small percentage, I cannot give a satisfactory answer, and nothing I say will change the direction of this thread.

Frank, as you know, I have first hand experience of you taking money and holding it months before placing the order with the manufacturer. You did it to me. The fact that my other orders went well doesn't matter.

I have no problem with you making a mistake here and there. You're busy, you're human, it happens. You'd think that you'd come up with a better way than "writing notes" and stuff to eliminate the issue, but that's not the real problem. The real problem is that in many cases usually involving large dollar purchases you have taken the money up front and held the order for a long period of time.

Here are the facts that I have personal knowledge of. Not second hand knowledge from a member in a thread. There are tons of those if a person wants to read threads here and on other boards.

You held the $5K order from my friend and I for 2 months before placing it, even with us checking on the progress along the way. (could not have been a mistake in ordering)


I have spoken directly with other manufacturers/dealers who have had the same scenario done to them on orders they placed with you.


There are other examples, but the point has been made. I've been self-employed for 25 years of my life. I know what cash flow issues do to a business. I spent over 10 years with my own speed shop and working retail and wholesale in the performance car parts industry. I know exactly how difficult your job is, I know you'll get blamed for things that are not your fault. But we are talking about something different here.

I hope you are truly over the hump with your business, and you've corrected whatever was causing you to do this. If so, these threads will disappear. Otherwise, we can expect this to be an on-going issue.

[XLexusTech]

FWIW this is what used to be common practice in Body shops... part of why they get a bad rep.... age only rule.. never ever pay in full up front your car will sit there forever.... they use your money to order parts for other cars or make payroll or whatever.... then your stuck.... Not saying this is what's happening here...

[ProdigyCustoms]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

As the old saying goes, "You can't please everybody".
If you're not servicing one of your best customers, you are doing something seriously wrong. You clearly need somebody else answering the phones and responding to emails. You can't be everything to everybody.

Your right man, 100% on a few things.

I am sorry i missed you rad deal, i was to slammed to get back with you. Guess I was complacent! but yeah, I do leave enough business out there to support another entire business.

Yes, I clearly need someone else answering the phones. The business has gotten way bigger then my cell phone can handle.

One thing under review right now is my unlimited tech service all day every day. I am getting slaughtered with calls. And to make it worse, some competitors have taken to selling BELOW cost (they are going out of business as we speak). But none the less, the more and more I find myself doing all the tech, project planing and then they going somewhere else to buy because the deal is so good. One of the posters in this thread did exactly that and is trapped now.

I might have to limit tech calls to a time period, maybe between sometime and sometime. I have NEVER insinuated someone be forced to buy from us in exchange for tech service, I get me share. But a recent scenario is making me rethink this theory. I will get off topic a minute

Guy writes to me, Frank I need suspension. I answer, I have 7 brands and systems, what are you doing, what are you using the car for, bla, bla, bla.

I have 9 replies 2 to 6 paragraphs long over 2 weeks going into great detail of why the system is best for him and convince him a specific product is right for him. He writes back, how much? I give him a price, he writes back, "best you can do", I answer yes?

Next day there is a new thread,

"Huge props to XXXX, I got the very best deal on XXX, I recommend him to everyone for XXX"!

Not a thread that says,

"I wore Frank out for all the information, Frank spent the time to EXPLAIN why this is the product for me, but I went somewhere else because another dealer is selling UNDER COST!"

So I guess that will happen and as i mentioned that business is all but gone now. But the reason I brought it up is to explain again why I had to assure everyone we are profitable. If I do not make a profit, I will be next!

So Todd, this business continues to grow and I will have to deal with the growing pains as they come. I may have to make some changes in my accessibility, give people something new to bitch about, LOL!

But again, except for the OP, everyone in this thread is more then 8 months old deals!

[XcYZ]

Oh and I'm not even going to waste my time reading franks endless posts of endless excuses. Its been the same story over and over and over. We're just numb to it.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Originally Posted by camcojb

You held the $5K order from my friend and I for 2 months before placing it, even with us checking on the progress along the way. (could not have been a mistake in ordering).

Wrong, i been waiting for this

You placed your order on 10 / 08

Here is the transcript of you DIRECT email exchange with Scott at Forgeline

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: wheel order
From: Scott Main <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, January 05, 2011 7:05 pm
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Cc: Prodigy <[email protected]>


The wheels we built were with standard assembly hardware, not blind bolt.
I have a rush order in the pipeline to make a set of blind bolt wheels for you.
Sorry for the confusion.


Scott Main
Forgeline Motorsports

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2011, at 6:30 PM, [email protected] wrote:


Scott, hate to bug you but these wheels still haven't shown. Any idea what is happening? Like to be able to tell my friend something.

Jody Bernard
Lateral-G







-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Main <[email protected]>
To: camcojb <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Nov 19, 2010 12:02 pm
Subject: RE: wheel order


Should be ready next week.


Scott Main
Forgeline Motorsports
3522 S. Kettering Blvd.
Dayton, OH 45439
800-886-0093 ext. 11
Fax 937-643-0070

www.forgeline.com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 2:20 PM
To: Scott Main
Subject: Re: wheel order

Yes that would make sense. My name is Jody Bernard so Frank would have used that as they're shipping to my house.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Main" <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 14:14:00 -0500
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: wheel order

Hi Jody,
Is the name on the order Bernard?

Scott Main
Forgeline Motorsports
3522 S. Kettering Blvd.
Dayton, OH 45439
800-886-0093 ext. 11
Fax 937-643-0070

www.forgeline.com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: wheel order


Scott,

this is Jody (camcojb) from Lateral-G. Ordered a set of 18X12 and 18X9.5 or 10 SP3 wheels, charcoal centers, and hidden hardware from Frank at Prodigy. Came with tires mounted and balanced, think they were PS2's. Figured it would be faster to get the info through you.............

These are for a friend of mine who's car is at my place. Should have been ordered around Oct 10th or so, but it's hard to say for sure. It's been about 5-6 weeks and just wondered if you knew where we were at on them.

Thanks.

You were in direct comminication? I cannot for the life of me see how I am to blame?

[ErikLS2]

Frank, I don't want to see your business fail and I'm sure you're a decent guy. You would be better served I think by leaving these threads be and take all the time you spend on these responses and invest it in some kind of training or class on organizing. They do exist. I don't know if you remember what I do for a living but I have had customer satisfaction beat into my head for the last 20 years. The customer is always right and service is remembered long after price is forgotten. Maybe you should forget being the Wal-Mart of this industry and beating everyone by 5% and increase your prices, increase your margins and focus ALL your energy on an organized customer service system. All the people seeking a 5% lower price are also the first types of people that bitch and moan the minute things go wrong. And, send all your customers some sort of survey on their experience after they place an order and use that feedback to get better.