Duramax???

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Camaromax

The Duramax will put down loads of torque and I believe that I have seen a few in the diesel truck forums getting right near 600hp with no work on the internals of the engine. Now while that is not a huge amount of horsepower it would be a really dependable powerplant that also gets great mileage vs gas engines with similar power.

and at 550-575 rwhp it'll be making about 1100 rwtq. I do my own tuning with Efi Live and my 7000 lb truck went 12.75 at 108.5 mph full weight and no track mods at all; stock engine/turbo, just tuning, exhaust, and water injection. It should go mid to low 12's with the t-bars and tire pressure lowered so it doesn't wheel hop. Oh, and it gets 22-23 mpg on the freeway, and no worse than 16 or so around town. Imagine what it would do in something lighter than 7000 lbs???!!

Although it would be a blast to drive, just realize you'll also receive a fair amount of smack for this swap. If you can live with that, then do it.

Jody

[slownova]

id wait and see what GM was going to do with the 4.5 duramax, before i tried to stuff a 6.6 in a car. the 4.5 is going to be a wicked little motor with a huge aftermarket, and it looks to be the size of a sbc?

[Camaromax]

Thanks fesler and camcojb for the input and advice

yeah I realize there are going to be a lot of people who do not like it but they do not realize it does not take rpm to make huge power. The only difference between this and a gas engine of the same power is that the power band of the diesel is right off idle and the gas engines have to wait till about 3000 rpm till they start making power. Also like camcojb said he gets 23 mpg in a 7000lb truck and he also runs in the 12s so even with those very easily done modifications to the engine looks like a Camaro, that should weigh in at I am hoping around 4000 lbs if that, should do better on fuel and be quicker in the quarter while still maintaining that reliability of the Duramax.

Also thanks to all who have suggested European diesels but I think those might be a little to exotic for what I am trying to do. I am also thinking about sticking with a GM theme.

The car will probably mostly be to be a driver and also for those occasional times I might go to the track.

fesler- any info on the performance end is much appreciated as I have not compiled much information on that yet. Like I said I am wanting mostly reliability and driveability. I would also like to stick with using a Duramax with mostly stock internals. I wouldn't mind taking the heads off and working on them and maybe adding thicker head gaskets to lower the compression so I can run more boost but I really do not want to get into the bottom end of this engine.

So what power level do you think would be reliable on a Stock Bottom End???

Thanks Again

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Camaromax

fesler- any info on the performance end is much appreciated as I have not compiled much information on that yet. Like I said I am wanting mostly reliability and driveability. I would also like to stick with using a Duramax with mostly stock internals. I wouldn't mind taking the heads off and working on them and maybe adding thicker head gaskets to lower the compression so I can run more boost but I really do not want to get into the bottom end of this engine.

So what power level do you think would be reliable on a Stock Bottom End???

Thanks Again

no reason to drop the compression (think it's at 17:1 or thereabouts on the new LMM's). Guys are running 40-45 psi without issue with aftermarket turbos or twins on the stock engines. Above that head studs are recommended, and the stock lower end still is fine. The stock turbo is claimed to be done by 32 psi, but on my truck 36-38 psi is faster than 32 psi even with the stock turbo.

Where the bottom end (rods usually) starts having problems is when you start running big pulse widths, lots of fuel. Twin CP3 fuel pumps and a big amount of fuel will bend the stock rods. Thing is you can run 3300-3400 pulse with stock pump, an add-on lift pump, and make enough power to put the trucks in the 11's with more air (bigger turbo or twins). Where would that put a car that's 3000 pounds lighter??????????

[Camaromax]

thanks for the input again

camcojb - sounds like your the guy to be talking to on here about these diesels. So if you were to build an engine for this car with a target of around 600hp how would you go about it? Would you just add head studs, Do the above fuel mods you mentioned, and some programming?

I was looking at PPE's site and they show programers adding 425hp has anyone tested these? If so what were the result and what other mods were done with the programming?

Also camcojb they say that every 10lbs is 1hp so in a car weighing 300lbs less than a truck that 3000 lbs would be like adding 300hp. I am sure that is just an estimate but I would think that 3000lb difference would at least put the car in low 11s if the truck is in the 11s at all, possible high 10s. All while getting 23+++ mpg.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Camaromax

thanks for the input again

camcojb - sounds like your the guy to be talking to on here about these diesels. So if you were to build an engine for this car with a target of around 600hp how would you go about it? Would you just add head studs, Do the above fuel mods you mentioned, and some programming?

I was looking at PPE's site and they show programers adding 425hp has anyone tested these? If so what were the result and what other mods were done with the programming?

Also camcojb they say that every 10lbs is 1hp so in a car weighing 300lbs less than a truck that 3000 lbs would be like adding 300hp. I am sure that is just an estimate but I would think that 3000lb difference would at least put the car in low 11s if the truck is in the 11s at all, possible high 10s. All while getting 23+++ mpg.

I would do the head studs since it's so easy with the engine out. I also would go with EFI Live instead of a PPE tune. Nothing against Dan at PPE, great guy and very good tuner. But his performance tunes are as much or more than EFI Live, and with his you can't do the tuning changes. With EFI Live you can change anything in the tune so if you want to try more boost, change the fuel, timing, etc. you have immediate access.

The biggest problem you'll have is traction. The street trucks that are the quickest are almost always 4wd, and there's a good reason for that. Even though the 4X weighs more and has more power loss down the track due to two diffs instead of one, they launch much harder and traction is way better. The 2wd trucks are rarely as quick as the 4X's, unless it's a drag specific truck, because they cannot hook 1100+ rwtq. You're gonna need slicks for sure for any track duty, and it'll still be a learning curve to get the car to leave decently. If you get it to hook well, you'll easily run 10's I would think, but not sure how easy that will be to do. Mileage, can't see any way you can't get well into the 20's on the freeway.

Jody

[deuce_454]

ok, this thread just caught my intererest beyond making suggestions.... mabe my euro-diesel suggestion was from only having ridden in a tuned Mercedes 400 CDI, vs a mild tune 24Vcummins, and the merc was infinitely faster and smoother...

but how much is a Duramax take-out engine... what manifolds do people run with twins.. fabricated logs?? what else, appart from the engine and a feed pump is required to make it run in a swap... how much does it weigh???

[Camaromax]

So some of my concerns now are:

1. Fitting in the engine bay due to height?

I am thinking possible dry sump to allow me to lower the engine down as far as I can so I can run a small cowl hood. If Chevy can run a dry sump on a production Corvette why shouldn't I be able to do so on my Camaro.

2. Traction???

What type of rear suspension to run? I am definitely not keeping the leaf springs I actually plan on doing some sort of custom frame. I am leaning toward using either a triangulated 4 bar or a torque arm style rear suspension, but I was thinking of only using a 285-305 rear tire???

3. Gear Ratio??

I am planning on using the Allison transmission so I need to figure out what gear ratio I will have to use to make the gearing similar to the trucks. to do this all I need is a rear gear ratio and tire size for the truck and convert that gear to be the same with the tire size I plan on running with the Camaro.


Please give any input on the above problems.

Thanks

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Camaromax

So some of my concerns now are:

1. Fitting in the engine bay due to height?

I am thinking possible dry sump to allow me to lower the engine down as far as I can so I can run a small cowl hood. If Chevy can run a dry sump on a production Corvette why shouldn't I be able to do so on my Camaro.

2. Traction???

What type of rear suspension to run? I am definitely not keeping the leaf springs I actually plan on doing some sort of custom frame. I am leaning toward using either a triangulated 4 bar or a torque arm style rear suspension, but I was thinking of only using a 285-305 rear tire???

3. Gear Ratio??

I am planning on using the Allison transmission so I need to figure out what gear ratio I will have to use to make the gearing similar to the trucks. to do this all I need is a rear gear ratio and tire size for the truck and convert that gear to be the same with the tire size I plan on running with the Camaro.


Please give any input on the above problems.

Thanks

1. should be able to, no idea where to get one.

2. good luck with traction..................

3. the trucks come with 3.70's but you'll need a much taller gear as the trucks have a 32" or taller tire.

[XcYZ]

How much does a Duramax/Allison weigh in comparison to an aluminum headed SBC or LSx and T56?

What would the car weigh when done?