You need to know this..........

[Steve1968LS2]

It's all about baby steps to thier ultimate goal...

[Steve1968LS2]

Originally Posted by Bowtieracing

I love facts as well... And simple fact is ; more guns you have , more shootings you have. It has nothing to do how many people live in california. I guess there little bit more people in Europe.. and no problems with guns at all. That is a fact.

Uh, not really... do you actually think criminals care about gun laws? All you end up doing is disarming the law abiding people.

Let me go find how the incidents of "hot burglaries" goes way up once the populace is told they can't have guns (ie, London). After all, a crook doesn't care if he breaks in while the people are home if he knows they are unarmed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/p...s-dungeon.html

But the trouble is that this kind of burglary - the kind most likely to go "wrong" - is now the norm in Britain. In America, it's called a "hot" burglary - a burglary that takes place when the homeowners are present - or a "home invasion", which is a much more accurate term. Just over 10 per cent of US burglaries are "hot" burglaries, and in my part of the world it's statistically insignificant: there is virtually zero chance of a New Hampshire home being broken into while the family are present. But in England and Wales it's more than 50 per cent and climbing. Which is hardly surprising given the police's petty, well-publicised pursuit of those citizens who have the impertinence to resist criminals.

More...

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgbur.html

By comparing criminal victimization surveys from Britain and the Netherlands (countries having low levels of gun ownership) with the U.S., Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck determined that if the U.S. were to have similar rates of "hot" burglaries as these other nations, there would be more than 450,000 additional burglaries per year where the victim was threatened or assaulted. (Britain and the Netherlands have a "hot" burglary rate near 45% versus just under 13% for the U.S., and in the U.S. a victim is threatened or attacked 30% of the time during a "hot" burglary.)

So, in the "gun free" utopia I guess you have a lesser chance of being shot and a way greater chance of just being robbed, beaten, raped or otherwise assaulted in your own home? Gotta love the facts

Crime in US going down.. in Europe going up?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...1/266umtwb.asp

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1760781.stm

Take away the guns.. and just get stapped... (do people actually think there was less violence before the invention of the gun?)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7508418.stm

There's lots more.. but you get the idea. For some humans violence is in thier nation and having a gun just makes them more effieciant but no more dangerous. Having good law-abiding people armed has shown to reduce overall crime, it's a fact. Again, gun laws only effect those that want to obey the law and those are the people (generally) that you don't need to worry about.

[Steve1968LS2]

On my remark about CCWs lowering crime... (conceled weapon permits)

note, not an unbiased site.. but the idea is sound:

http://www.azccw.com/More%20Facts%20&%20Statistics.htm

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2...ers/135349.txt

According to the FBI, states with ``shall-issue'' right-to-carry laws have a 26 percent lower total violent crime rate, a 20 percent lower homicide rate, a 39 percent lower robbery rate and a 22 percent lower aggravated assault rate than those states that do not allow their citizens to legally carry guns

There are many links but unfortunatly most sites are either rabidly anti-gun or crazy the other direction.. but all the FBI stats I found show that relaxed CCW laws in states resulted in a drop in overall violent crime.

Again, the problem isn't the guns, it's who has the guns. For anyone that thinks outlawing guns will help then think about this.. are drugs illegal? yep, but that doesn't stop tons from being smuggled into the US. If they can bring in tons of drugs then bringing in "illegal" guns would be easy. And what criminal wouldn't love having a firearm when facing an unarmed population?

Just food for thought.

[acohoon]

Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2

On my remark about CCWs lowering crime... (conceled weapon permits)


There are many links but unfortunatly most sites are either rabidly anti-gun or crazy the other direction.. but all the FBI stats I found show that relaxed CCW laws in states resulted in a drop in overall violent crime.

I agree totally Steve. Here in Murray (Kentucky) literally 50% of the people I know carry a weapon either on their person or in their vehicle. Our county has a huge problem with meth and marijuana but no one ever gets broken into while they are at home and home burglaries as a whole are very low. I can not remember the last time an innocent person has been assaulted or robbed.

I asked one of my friends on the police force why he thought this was and he said "All our criminals grew up around here, they know everyone is more than capable of defending themselves, for the criminals its a self preservation thing."

I carry and am proud of it. I only laugh at people who make outrageous statements about gun crime and act like they know more about the topic when they have never actually had any firearm education (my girlfriend's sister). I then very calmly guide them to a computer and show them the information on Great Britain and that usually changes their tune right away.

[skatinjay27]

i fully agree with andy(marine71)

as far as any gun control goes its f-in stupid and youll rack your brain trying to figure out how anyone can actually think its a good idea and help the problem, yeah... since most crimes a commited with legal registered gun!

criminals dont obide by the law now what the hell makes you thinks they follow by that one. if that was the case we wouldnt have drug problems.

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by Marine71

Well I can tell you why...When people commit a crime in Europe they punish them a little bit more .. Our country is liberal. They slap the bad guy on the hand and slip through the cracks of our nice judicial system.If you don't believe me go ask a cop. They arrest the same people everyday for the same stuff. Its the revolving door. This is a fact. Same goes for Drug smuggling..Here you get probation ..In Laos you get the firing squad...When you spray paint a wall here you get probation..In Singapore you get the cane..If you steel here you get probation. In Saudi Arabia you get your hand taken off. Look at all those countries crime statistics..Frikin Low..I know for a fact in Saudi Arabia that they announce who they beheaded for the day for the following crimes on the news..this gets the point across. If we did that here we wouldnt have a crime problem. If your a terrorist in a jail here in America that has plotted to kill Americans you get 3 hots and a cot. And we are worried about waterbourning? Its a joke..I guess we forgot about 911 and that those Terrorists flew 2 planes into the twin towers. You go ask anyone who served in Iraq if they forgot or the families who had loved ones in those buildings. I will never forget what happened. Far as i am concerned those confirmed terrorists that we have in Cuba are taking up to much air.

Amen brother...Amen.

[ProTouring442]

Originally Posted by Bowtieracing

I love facts as well... And simple fact is ; more guns you have , more shootings you have. It has nothing to do how many people live in california. I guess there little bit more people in Europe.. and no problems with guns at all. That is a fact.

Switzerland still part of Europe, or did you guys kick them out?

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by Marine71

Originally Posted by Bowtieracing
I love facts as well... And simple fact is ; more guns you have , more shootings you have. It has nothing to do how many people live in california. I guess there little bit more people in Europe.. and no problems with guns at all. That is a fact.

"I say this respectfully and mean no disrespect" Ill have to disagree with this statement.I know what you are trying to say but i think it is to broad of a statment. You have to look at who are the "shooters" are. Regardless of what state you are in.Look at the state of Montana. LOts of people have guns there. DOn't hear to much about that. How about Texas? Same thing... Just because you have alot of guns doesn't mean you are going to have alot of shootings. In reference to Europe .Europe has seen their fair share of shootings, Some seriously bad ones. Alot of blame goes to the media and what they report also. The laws in Europe are more strict and are more strongly enforced. We have DA's all around the country here that always wanna make a deal.The next thing you know BAM! they are on probation and back out. This is a fact! I have seen it. There is a Town in Utah that requires you to own a gun to live in it. Ask how many shootings they have? None...Majority of shootings occur in low income areas where people have no money. Most of them are stolen guns. When their are guns in these area there are drugs. Look at the FBI and your local PD statistics.

I've done a few rides with the Las Vegas Metro Police Department and one thing that struck me as odd is the amount of and type of paper work an officer has to do. Mainly the fact that if the officer doesn't do things perfect the DA throws it out, considering it a waste of their time. Basically the DA is looking for the easy cases where most everything is done for them. I was also amazed how all the officers I rode with where on a first name basis with some of the thugs due to arresting them so many times. I'll tell you I have more respect for police officers after seeing what they deal with and go through on a daily basis. For anyone that doesn't feel it necessary to own a fire arm (and know how to use it through proper training) I would invite you to do a ride with the police department. Go at night and in the worst part of town. To chicken....sit in with a 911 call taker and listen to the calls that come in all night. Educate your self and see the reality. Maybe then we can all push to get the laws enforced, punishment served and put a stop to needless violence.

One last tid bit....if you think the cops are going to arrive to save the day just in the nick of time when that bad guy comes calling, you are sadly mistaken. Don't get me wrong they would love to be there and take care of things, but the reality is that they are busy fighting criminals in those places you avoid. The old saying of "It's better to have a gun in the hand than a cop on the phone" is true in a lot of ways. It is sad and I look forward to a time when I don't feel it necessary to have my guard up all the time.

People....don't be sheep.

[ProTouring442]

Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[ItDoRun]

My arsenal is stocked and ready to go! I can promise you that I won't wait on a cop to get to my house. Business will be taken care of especially when it comes to protecting my family. Don't get me wrong, I don't ever want to be put in a situation like that, but I can promise you that 911 will be called AFTER the damage is done if I am.

The problem is this pathetic judicial system we have. It's pitiful and only getting worse. We'd rather slap someone on the hand than serve them rightful justice. Most of these criminals have a better lifestyle in prison than they did at home! Here's an idea. Cut out the a/c, 7 course meals, and all other privelages these thugs get from our tax dollars and treat them like they treated others.

We live in a CLUE IMPAIRED society and if Americans don't wake up pretty soon our poor children will never see the real beauty of this "once great" country. All they'll see is they're freakin' paychecks taken from them from this bonehead government along with their freedom. WAKE UP AMERICA! It's slowly happening before your very eyes!

Whew, I feel better now! Sorry, but I just really get worked up over the direction this country is headed.