When does a 69 Camaro cease to be a 69 camaro??

[nvr2fst]

Also keep in mind it took years to get the performance aspect of the chassis and suspension mods to where it is today. We still have shops trying to achieve better geometry chassis, rear end setups and of course the motor builds to match. I still remember when I was younger the biggest body mod was smoothing the firewall. With all the aftermarket tail lamps, door handles, smooth glass, etc. becoming so popular you have to have the body match those components. Ex.- the wrong door handle or mirror on a stock door panel may look like crap but if the door was modified slightly for those addons you may have the next look.

[nvr2fst]

Originally Posted by mexMan

As long as the body is made out of steel and it has a cool powerplant it's still a '69. I know why they love to use it, those side lines make it so hot and sexy. But I'm more a 67-68 Camaro guy, that's why I rather see Bad Penny over the Golden Coffin. But I'm more a functionality guy too, that's why rather drive the Golden Coffin over any of the leather seated and sound systems showcars.

Rouge: I'M GOLDEN COFFIN'S #1 FAN!

Why does the body in your opinion need to made out of steel. No matter what type of panel structure your using (steel, CF, aluminum, fiberglass) doesnt affect the look of the body lines as to the original OPs question.

[GregWeld]

Ty --

That is such a difficult question to respond to "in writing" -- because the question you're asking is visual... some changes might look great while what seems to be a simple (hood scoop?) change might suck.

The only way you really know before the build is to have one of the guys do a rendering - post that up and see what people think.

I was trying to figure out why you asked the question in the first place - so had to assume that you're toying with body mods on your project... so that's why I said maybe to have a rendering done with what you're thinking.

I agree with an above post - when Motion got hold of something - they went for UGLY in the first degree... I don't care how 'rare' they are... sometimes 'rare' is rare because nobody wanted them then either!

[Kendall Burleson]

The car can have any material that make it look better(The 62 vette that the Roaster shop didn't hurt it look at all)

[nvr2fst]

Originally Posted by phillym5

I REALLY like the way yours is coming out. I did similar on my car (flaring the fender line).... but took a different route than yours. I CAN NOT WAIT to see yours done!!

There are certain things I like and there are certain things I dont like, hopefully when it all meshes together Ill be happy.

The stretching of the body lines is going to be a big hit IMO. Although Ive only come across a couple of builds with this starting from the Year one TA. I believe Rodger and Gonzo have something going on here and you knows what other car bodies it follows on. Cost is a major player for most consumers.
Weve been asked before if anybody would be interested in a Production Razor hood. Im not sure if that ever took off mostly because of cost. I feel Anvils costs on the CF parts they have are extremely reasonable. Most likely due to the fact that they know people will buy stock pieces in CF. Not speaking for Anvil, but IMO make a production piece that they feel only 5% of the market may buy would be tuff on profit margin. Trust me Ive asked Matt in the past, it not cheap.
Well all I can say is I see a poll starting on this.

[nvr2fst]

Greg, to all respect to what your asking I dont think Ty would want a rendering to be posted. There are some renderings out there with body mods. But as the saying goes... it looked good on paper. I think the more it gets done in "real time" the more opinions will come out. There has been only a few that have followed the look of there renderings on body mods. Most final cars Ive seen, one part or another changed from the original drawing or thought of modification that was intended including myself.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Originally Posted by DFRESH

I would say when the 80's snorkel hood scoop makes its appearance.

Those were troubled times Doug.

[z4me69]

in my eyes the 69 camaro is the most beautiful car on the planet period .thats why i have 3. as far as changing the body lines. no need gm got it right for once and thats why the 69 is about the most popular muscle car on the planet

[chr2002ca]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

When does a 69 Camaro cease to be a 69 camaro??

When you use a body manufactured in China.

[tyoneal]

To Everyone:

Thanks for the input so far. I know the question was vague and open ended, but that was the point, everyone will have an opinion.

All this being said, I'll add a few more items and see where these fall.

1) Many of the Builds being done now (I just used a 69 because I am working on one, but it can be any car for that matter for the question to be asked) look a lot like the "Base Car", on the outside, but look like something completely different once you get inside.

It was mentioned/hinting in some of the post that it lost it's identity once you couldn't tell want it is/was. That said, are some of the interiors technically a distraction, as you probably couldn't tell what car you were in, or at least what year of car it was? Thus, violation of the "Pro Touring" definition?

Pro-Touring technically is, "a old/vintage/classic car with updated driveline and suspension", that can handle as well or better than a modern sports car.

Isn't this correct?

As far as I know, the interior isn't part of that definition. Some of the "Classic", part of the Muscle cars is the design of the interior.

True or False?
============================
The Pro-touring car seems to be in a state of Evolution. The original definition seems somewhat out dated, as originally written. Now it is common to find larger/modified rear Spoilers, front Splitters, Functional Scoops, NACA ducts, Functional Brake Ducts etc. on, "Pro-Touring", cars.

As mentioned earlier the interior is also a part of this transformation, but sometimes even further along in the change.

Do we now accept these things as Pro-Touring, or are they another creature altogether? As performance becomes higher inside and out, and many of us now are running some kind of Roll Over Bar, or Cage thus rendering the rear seat useless, are we now becoming technically in the same league as the two seater sports cars, thus leaning more towards, "Grand Touring", or, "GT"? Like a Corvette, or racing cars in the GT1 form of racing?

Further, the cars in the higher end performing builds are using CF pretty regularly now days. On board, Zoned Fire Extinguishers, Data Acquisition Equipment, Cockpit Adjustable Boost and so on, are now really starting to incorporate true racing car amenities. Yes, we still have carpet, and most still have stereos, but many things now you cannot order even on a fairly high end car. The builds are becoming more, "Pro-Touring Super-cars".

Is that really what some of the cars are at this point?

3. In the past, "Hot Rods", segmented, into "Street Rods", "Street Machines", and so on and so forth.

Is this type of segmentation something that will, or should start happening in the Pro-Touring arena at this point? (Not to exclude, just to identify clearer)

4. Some of us have chosen the vintage, "Trans Am", Racer as a dominant or heavily influential part of it's design of look. Thus dawning the Vintage appearance of a 1960's Race Car, with the modern technology and equipment of contemporary Road Racing Cars.

Are these in somewhat of there own segmentation?

At this point having, "Pro Touring", "Pro Touring Supercar", and "Pro Touring Race Car"?

5. I have really enjoyed GM bring back the Camaro and it's reverse styling being a new car with vintage design hints.

As I look at the profile of the 2009 Camaro and if I were to try to describe the shape and style of it to someone else, as part of that description, I would say that it appears to have a slight, "Chopped", look to it of maybe an 1-1.5 inches.

As most people know who have enjoyed cars for a long time know, as people started modifying the cars to become Hot Rods, there was a point down the road when chopping, channeling, and other major shaping techniques started to take place. We appear to be on that same cusp now with Pro Touring.

What are your thoughts on these types of modifying techniques, as they relate to the Pro Touring styles of builds we have based much of our designs on?

Are they just a logical evolution in the realm of Pro Touring, or are these changes so vast as to look at the cars, and think the person is a douche for screwing up a scarce and beautiful muscle car?

or

Is this type of treatment just another option in Pro Touring building options?

I will see if I can add a poll to graphically show some support in these topics.

Thanks for reading.

Ty O'Neal

Ok, I'm a 'Tard. Can someone post a poll with the follow choices?

Should, "Pro Touring", be segmented in someway to help identify the Type or Class of Pro Touring project?

If so,

Which classes do you favor? Pro Touring, Pro Touring Super Car, Pro Touring Race Car, None of the above, all of the above.

If you think that Pro Touring is the ONLY phrase that should be used, is there anything that should be out of bounds doing a Pro Touring Build? Modifying the Interior completely, Drastic Body modifications. (Chop, Channeling, etc.)

Should a "Pro Touring", Car design try to stop where it would be considered hacking up a nice Muscle car?

On any of your responses, feel free to write extensively with your thoughts, so that you have had the opportunity to really consider the questions presented to you.