Ford... what's going to happen?

[Derek69SS]

I have a legitimate question regarding quality issues with 80s & 90s GM cars... my question is, what was wrong with them? I've driven 80s & 90s GMs (mostly B-bodies, full-size trucks, and the cars with 3.8L, 2.8L, and 3.1L V6s) most with a gazillion miles on them all my life, and have never had an unreliable/problematic car. Was I just fortunate, or what? I know the quad-4 had head-gasket problems, and the 3.4L V6 had timing belt issues... is that entirely what the bad reputation came from??? I guess you could throw the olds 350 diesel in the list of duds too, but I'd imagine people would have gotten over that one by now.

[Rybar]

How many of you guys have owned late model Big 3 vehicles & Toyota to compare? My family has, and the Toyota's speak for themselves, not only in quality and reliability, but in resale. Even the Germans can't keep up. Also Toyota offers little in options (only 1 or 2 engine/tranny choices available) while the big 3 offer 5+ per vehicle. That definately keeps costs down. I love Big 3 products and have owned my share, but from an investment staindpoint and not having the time or money to be fixing or repairing a daily driver all the time it's no wonder why Toyota is winning the battle. Honda and Nissan are following suit.

For example, what is your full size GM or Ford truck worth after one year of ownership VS a Toyota? Check the papers and see what the answer is.

[Colvindesign]

Originally Posted by Derek69SS

I have a legitimate question regarding quality issues with 80s & 90s GM cars... my question is, what was wrong with them? I've driven 80s & 90s GMs (mostly B-bodies, full-size trucks, and the cars with 3.8L, 2.8L, and 3.1L V6s) most with a gazillion miles on them all my life, and have never had an unreliable/problematic car. Was I just fortunate, or what? I know the quad-4 had head-gasket problems, and the 3.4L V6 had timing belt issues... is that entirely what the bad reputation came from??? I guess you could throw the olds 350 diesel in the list of duds too, but I'd imagine people would have gotten over that one by now.

there were quality problems, as well as fit and finish, and the fisher price interiors, and the shorter warranties, peeling/fading paint. These are all things that turned people away.

were not going to talk about the olds diesel, or the caddy cimmaron.

[Derek69SS]

Originally Posted by Rybar

...and not having the time or money to be fixing or repairing a daily driver all the time...

What problems exactly have you had? In a combined 100k miles on the GM cars my wife and I currently drive, I have replaced one fuel pressure regulator, one coil, and one starter aside from routine maintenance and wear parts. Again, maybe I'm just lucky, but I'm hardly working on them "all the time". None of these are new cars - '98 bonneville 140k, '95 Caprice 150k, and '91 Bonneville 250k. I'm expecting an opti-spark in the caprice within the next 50k, but the others I don't anticipate any more than oil changes and filters for a long time. The only shop visits are to clear the CEL when my wife forgets to put the gas-cap on.

Originally Posted by Colvindesign

there were quality problems, as well as fit and finish, and the fisher price interiors, and the shorter warranties, peeling/fading paint. These are all things that turned people away.

I can understand the paint... I've had a few trucks in the blues and silvers that were peelers. The rest, seems to be up to par on the cars I've owned. I've never sat in a car as comfortable as my old '93 Caprice. Of course, that's a much higher quality car than a Grand Am or some of those other cheap small cars that may have been considered "low quality".

It just baffles me that their reputation could be so bad, since all of my GM car experiences have been positive.

[zbugger]

You guys brought up the Aztec. Well, there was a Toyota that was the EXACT SAME CAR!!! Really nice reviews on the Toyota, and then Pontiac got crapped on. Can you name the car?

On the issue of reliability, it goes both ways. There's people that have no trouble with any of the cars coming from the big three. There's people that have had nothing BUT issues with Japanese cars. They all have their lemons. I know people that buy BMW's because they're German cars and they talk all about the engineering. What they soon realize is all the wiring and electrical issues those cars seem to have. I know more people that lease a BMW only to turn and say they'd never get another one. In fact, I've seen some go from a BMW X5 to a Chevy Tahoe or Ford Expedition. They say the American car is more comfortable in almost every way. In reality, I just wish that most media types would lower their expectations on all cars and not compare them to eachother like they do. They take one car and hold it on a pedastal, and if a car has one thing that doesn't measure up, even though three other things might surpass that other car, it is dumped on. Kinda like the guys from Top Gear. Oh, the C6 Corvette Z06 will scare the pants off of them, but look at that rear panel flex. Oh, and it has a horse and buggy leaf spring in back? Can't do that. It's not a Jaguar or a Ferrari. Yet it still spanks them all in every category.

As for what happens up top in these companies, well, they just don't listen to the consumer enough. Do that and you can build a better car. Just don't limit yourself based on what a minority says.

[Stuart Adams]

I'm sure salaries, medical insurance and huge executive salaries/compensation packages don't help.

[4mm]

Originally Posted by Rybar

How many of you guys have owned late model Big 3 vehicles & Toyota to compare? My family has, and the Toyota's speak for themselves, not only in quality and reliability, but in resale. Even the Germans can't keep up. Also Toyota offers little in options (only 1 or 2 engine/tranny choices available) while the big 3 offer 5+ per vehicle. That definately keeps costs down. I love Big 3 products and have owned my share, but from an investment staindpoint and not having the time or money to be fixing or repairing a daily driver all the time it's no wonder why Toyota is winning the battle. Honda and Nissan are following suit.

For example, what is your full size GM or Ford truck worth after one year of ownership VS a Toyota? Check the papers and see what the answer is.

I agree with the above, not only in terms of resale, but overall quality. After owning an average of 6 domestic brand cars each one new per year; I can say from personal experience Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are a better overall car. I hate to say it but I refuse to stick my head in the sand.

[Rybar]

What problems have I had?

I had a 1994 Trans Am that was at the dealership weekly getting something fixed, leaky windows, tailights and faded paint when it was brand new! Nevermind all the sensors that went bad, the opti, cracked factory plugs and at least 6 blown rear-ends.

For Dodge I had two trucks:

a 1998 Ram which the rear-end blew and the tranny wasn't too far behind, luckily I sold it before anything worse happened (and I never towed with this truck)

a 1999 Durango which was the biggest POS I ever owned. Loved the styling and size, but a brake job every 9-12 months? A new tranny and rear end. All new ball joints in the front end, (Dodge recalled all 2000-2003 Durango's for this, which was hundreds of thousands of them) I blew $10K on it last year alone before tossing it in the gutter. The gas mileage was horrible, most V6 trucks made more power than it.

My point is, if the big three would spend the money researching and developing parts that last past 5 years or 100K miles they would save them selves alot of headaches down the road when there cars are all POS. Ball joints and brakes designed for 4 cyl cars/trucks on 6000lb vehicles? Rear-ends in a 300-350hp V8 sports car the same size as 4cyl S10 pickups? C'mon where's the quality there?

Up here you can buy a brand new Ford Explorer for $50K Cdn, 6 months later the dealers are pawning them off at $35-$40K brand new on the lot, just to get rid of them? You can buy a new Escalade or Hummer H2 for $80K and pick them up used one year old for $50K Mind you this is Canadian funds.

I love American cars as much as you guys, nice style, V8 power. But from an investment they can't keep up vs Toyota.

[Al Moreno]

Originally Posted by Stuart Adams

I'm sure salaries, medical insurance and huge executive salaries/compensation packages don't help.

I Agree 110%.

[one+g]

This is a part of their problem. Ford Leader said he would rather go bankrupt than give in to the boycott. Never ignore your base!!
http://www.afa.net/aa090606.asp
Pro-Family organizations endorsing the boycott of Ford include:

American Family Association
Center for Reclaiming America
Citizens for Community Values
Vision America
Free Market Foundation
WIN Family Services
Liberty Counsel
CatholicVote.org
Point of View Radio
Coalitions for America
Mayday for Marriage
RealMarriage.org
Judeo-Christian Council
Constituent Vote
Faith2Action
Coalition for Marriage and Family
ConservativeHQ.com
Tradition, Family, Property, Inc.
National Association of Marriage Enhancement
VCY America Radio Network
Illinois Family Institute
Renew America
Christian Coalition International (Canada), Inc.
Truth Tellers
National Prayer Network
West Virginia Family Foundation
Awake America Ministries
Abiding Truth Ministries
The Pro-Family Law Center
Brian Camenker, Dir. Mass Resistance
Christian Family Coalition
United States Justice Foundation
Catholic Citizens of Illinois (CCI)

(other organizations are expected to endorse the boycott during the next few weeks)

For more on Ford's promotion of the homosexual agenda, check out these sites
www.fordglobe.org
http://www.witeckcombs.com/show.news...184&format=pdf
www.witeckcombs.com/portfolio.html
www.fordglobe.org/magnet.html
www.fordglobe.org/history.html
www.glaad.org/media/archive_detail.php?id=3493
http://www.fordglobe.org/2001/04/18f...diaAwards.html
http://www.witeckcombs.com/show.news...149&format=pdf
media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11559&make_id=96
http://www.originaldissent.com/forum...p/t-10188.html
www.planetout.com/money/article.html?sernum=314
http://www.thegully.com/essays/gay_m...amily_ads.html
www2.commercialcloset.org/cgi-bin/iowa/portrayals.html?record=1082
www2.commercialcloset.org/cgi-bin/iowa/portrayals.html?record=1170
Ford Affirms Gay Publication Support. No Victory for AFA