427ci LS2 sleeved, dry sump oil pump, engine build & install, 69 Camaro

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by DaleTx

Dale - what do you have on top of your throttle body, a spacer?

[DaleTx]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Tobin recommended Hawk HP Plus to me for street and track compromise. While I haven't had them on the track yet they work well on the street, they don't require preheating to stop at the first stop sign you come to, and they're pretty quite. As he warned they generate dust and will wear rotors........THEY GENERATE DUST! but visually the rotor wear doesn't appear extreme. Did I mention they generate dust?

What's the old saying...........drive hard into the braking zone until you see God then stand on the brakes!

Hard to say from watching the video or feeling the chassis coming into and under braking but it looked like you were off the throttle well before the 500 mark and coasting into the braking zone. Start challenging yourself and the car on a corner that has no penalties if you go in too deep. Pick a throttle off point and brakes on point and gradually shorten them up until you get on the edge of not apexing the corner properly. Then you can confidently apply those references to most braking marker zones. Off-chambers, elevation changes, bumps/seams, brake over-heating, greasy tires, etc. need to be compensated for.

Once you learn your braking points around the track(s) you should see lap times improve. Also create drive-out reference markers past the apex point to aim the car at while rolling into the throttle they can serve as a point where you should be able to deliver maximum throttle for available traction.

You appear to have one of the toughest skills mastered......smooth. Most really fast drivers are really smooth. How they become really consistent is through establishing and adhering to personal reference points on the track.

Thanks Sieg... I really appreciate your comments about driving techniques. Up to this point I have been focusing on learning the proper lines on the track and hitting the apexes and not as much about lap times. I'm at the point now where I'm out there ripping around and feel totally comfortable and consistant. Now I need to work on braking later and getting on it harder out of the corners like you said.

Getting the camera was a good thing... it was nice to sit back on Saturday morning and watch the runs... I saw the same things you mentioned. I look forward to improving the skills, pushing it and getting sideways a bit more.

[DaleTx]

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

Dale - what do you have on top of your throttle body, a spacer?

Ron... The air filter spacer is made by "Allstar Performance" Summit # ALL26087. They make all different heights and they seal with an O-ring, nice part.

[DaleTx]

Originally Posted by garickman

Awesome post Dale, that really helps me out. Thanks for posting so much detail. It's people like you that make this such a great site.

No problem Rick.. hope it works out, they are a nice cover.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by DaleTx

Thanks Sieg... I really appreciate your comments about driving techniques. Up to this point I have been focusing on learning the proper lines on the track and hitting the apexes and not as much about lap times. I'm at the point now where I'm out there ripping around and feel totally comfortable and consistant. Now I need to work on braking later and getting on it harder out of the corners like you said.

Getting the camera was a good thing... it was nice to sit back on Saturday morning and watch the runs... I saw the same things you mentioned. I look forward to improving the skills, pushing it and getting sideways a bit more.

All said...I tell ya... I felt a bit like the intimidator out there on Friday... it seemed like a lot of guys were just waving me by without even trying... it is fun to be fast as he** coming out of the corners and onto the straights, Lol

I was hoping my lens would come in early Friday instead of 4:15, seriously wanted to buzz up there and shoot some pics of you and listen to the intimidator!

[DaleTx]

Originally Posted by Sieg

I was hoping my lens would come in early Friday instead of 4:15, seriously wanted to buzz up there and shoot some pics of you and listen to the intimidator!

Sieg please.... before you buy another camera lens go out and buy a wide band A/F gauge for your Camaro,

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by DaleTx

Sieg please.... before you buy another camera lens go out and buy a wide band A/F gauge for your Camaro,

I hear you - Exhaust from collectors to muffler first......need a bung for the o2 sensor and it would be wrong to weld one in to the existing cobbled up mess.

[PTAddict]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Tobin recommended Hawk HP Plus to me for street and track compromise. While I haven't had them on the track yet they work well on the street, they don't require preheating to stop at the first stop sign you come to, and they're pretty quite. As he warned they generate dust and will wear rotors........THEY GENERATE DUST! but visually the rotor wear doesn't appear extreme. Did I mention they generate dust?

What's the old saying...........drive hard into the braking zone until you see God then stand on the brakes!

Hard to say from watching the video or feeling the chassis coming into and under braking but it looked like you were off the throttle well before the 500 mark and coasting into the braking zone. Start challenging yourself and the car on a corner that has no penalties if you go in too deep. Pick a throttle off point and brakes on point and gradually shorten them up until you get on the edge of not apexing the corner properly. Then you can confidently apply those references to most braking marker zones. Off-chambers, elevation changes, bumps/seams, brake over-heating, greasy tires, etc. need to be compensated for.

Once you learn your braking points around the track(s) you should see lap times improve. Also create drive-out reference markers past the apex point to aim the car at while rolling into the throttle they can serve as a point where you should be able to deliver maximum throttle for available traction.

You appear to have one of the toughest skills mastered......smooth. Most really fast drivers are really smooth. How they become really consistent is through establishing and adhering to personal reference points on the track.

I used the Baer track system on my previous car, a '71 Camaro with modded LS3 and full-on Global West suspension. As I learned the track and accumulated seat time, I found that dedicated racing pads and high-temp racing fluid were a necessity for the Track system to be even marginally workable. There's just not a whole lot of pad and rotor there to handle the thermal load of repeatedly hauling down 3500+ lb from 130+ MPH. From experience, using street or hybrid pads, if you continue to push the braking zones to the limit as Sieg suggests you will eventually experience the thrill of full-on brake fade. Not recommended for the weak of heart. Or, come to think of it, for the normal of heart either.

After some experimentation, I eventually ended up using Carbotech race pads for the track, XP12 front compound and XP10 rear. Then I'd switch back to the Carbotech street pads for street use - the race pads squeak like the very devil. The Carbotech formulations use the same "deposit layer" for both street and race pads, meaning you don't have to have dedicated track rotors separately bedded. The only problem is, the C4 pads are not just small but also quite thin and thus wear out much faster than the bigger, thicker pads used by the more ambitious big brake packages. And race pads ain't cheap.

I think Sieg's recommendation of the Hawk HP plus is not a bad one for a learning track driver. Just be sensitive to when your pedal pressure seems unusually high, or your pedal height unusually low, and back off a bit for a lap or two. When that gets too annoying, time for the next step

[DaleTx]

Originally Posted by PTAddict

I used the Baer track system on my previous car, a '71 Camaro with modded LS3 and full-on Global West suspension. As I learned the track and accumulated seat time, I found that dedicated racing pads and high-temp racing fluid were a necessity for the Track system to be even marginally workable. There's just not a whole lot of pad and rotor there to handle the thermal load of repeatedly hauling down 3500+ lb from 130+ MPH. From experience, using street or hybrid pads, if you continue to push the braking zones to the limit as Sieg suggests you will eventually experience the thrill of full-on brake fade. Not recommended for the weak of heart. Or, come to think of it, for the normal of heart either.

After some experimentation, I eventually ended up using Carbotech race pads for the track, XP12 front compound and XP10 rear. Then I'd switch back to the Carbotech street pads for street use - the race pads squeak like the very devil. The Carbotech formulations use the same "deposit layer" for both street and race pads, meaning you don't have to have dedicated track rotors separately bedded. The only problem is, the C4 pads are not just small but also quite thin and thus wear out much faster than the bigger, thicker pads used by the more ambitious big brake packages. And race pads ain't cheap.

I think Sieg's recommendation of the Hawk HP plus is not a bad one for a learning track driver. Just be sensitive to when your pedal pressure seems unusually high, or your pedal height unusually low, and back off a bit for a lap or two. When that gets too annoying, time for the next step

Thanks Scott... appreciate the great info on the brake pads.

I went back and watched your video out at PIR and your times were in the 1 min 28 second range compared to my 1 min 34 second range... that is quite a spread. My goal now is to get below 1 min 30 sec.

I Just got an email from Cascade Sports Car Club and the next track day events at PIR are on Aug. 9th, and Sept. 6th. I am going to sign up early for the Aug 9th track day. Let me know if you are interested in that event or if you have something else in mind. Look forward to meeting you some time... thanks again for the brake set up info!

It would be great if there are any other Oregon Washington Lat G members that would want to hit PIR in August...

[DaleTx]

Here is one more video from the Track Day event last Friday. This one I shortened up from the last one. This is the 3rd session and I was picking up speed a bit and trying to go into turn 10 in 4th gear instead of third… I’m still letting off the gas to early and braking to early like Sieg mentioned. I really do appreciate Siegs feedback… that’s how a guy improves

In this video I ended up running out of gas at full speed on the back straight right after passing a black Mustang… this happened on the last lap (5:18 in video) and I was able to coast back to the pits all the way to my parking spot! My fuel consumption at this event was 3 mpg. I went through nearly two tanks. Now I know for next time to always have a a minimum of half a tank before going out.

I do have a comment on the new Hotchkis Tuned Fox Shocks…. I am a big fan of Hotchkis stuff and have a bunch of their parts on my car. After running the new Fox shocks on the track I was not impressed. They worked great on the street and had a little better ride than the Bilsteins, but on the track they didn’t feel right to me. The front of the car would start bouncing at high speed on a couple of sections on the track…. You can see it in the video on the front and back straight. I didn’t care for the bouncing… my Bilsteins didn’t do this. I have 600 lb coils on the front of my car and I don’t think the shocks had enough dampening. The Fox shocks didn’t work for me… I am going back to the Bilsteins. This is my 2 cents after trying them… the Foxes are better on the street than the Bilsteins but not as good on the track… and unfortunately they are not adjustable.