1969 Camaro tru-turn

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by Stovebolter

Perhaps you can come up with a list of LS swap parts (engine plates, oil pans, long tube headers, and transmission x member) that you believe will work with your Tru Turn system for a 1rst gen Fbody without modification? part numbers? Make it a sticky in this forum and others. Instead of all of us going over thread after thread trying to figure out what will work? It's like going back 15 years or so to the first LS swap into a 69 Camaro. Lol. I recommend your system for OEM drivetrain. Love mine. But not for a LS swap. No way. I feel others pain now that I'm planning a conversion. If I wanted to reinvent the wheel I would go out, invest in some chassis tuning books, re educate myself in everything from bump steer to etc and build my own front end. Maybe take a class under the direction of Ron Sutton. I'm sorry but this lack of information is __________(fill in the blank).

Im no longer at the shop(RideTech) but most...maybe all of the parts used on the 48 hour camaro LS swap are list here that may help.


I used real simple parts on my own car
TALL 1969 350 factory engine mounts
Prothane engine plate and mount kit #7-519
Moroso Pan #20140 and the correct pick up
Sanderson Headers #LS10

but I'm not in the LS swap business, I just a hot rodder, maybe we should ask someone that is in the LS swap business to do it, like Holley, BRPhotrods, Muscle rods or so on

[Leadfoot1]

..... Hey!!??

Is that it??

I just read all those papges for nothing??

I was searching for ideas on fitting some C6 ZR1 wheels on my 69 and tought about the Tru Turn for the front... This thread popped up and sounded like it needed to be read, so i did... But now, should i buy the kit or not??

I want to keep the original motor for the time beeing so it looks like it fits with that right?

Im wanting to run a 19x10 front w/ 285. And 19x12 w/345's.

Whats the best set up?

(I would not mind notching the frame at some point and doing fiberglass inner fenders.... I also have a set of glass fenders i kept from another project but that would be stretching it i think, my car is 100% original and stock... And squaky clean too!!!)

Lead

[glr0212]

A small block will work with the tru turn. Use dynatech muscle maxx headers. Great quality, thick flange and swept back to clear the linkage

as far as whether or not to buy the system.... If you really want a big tire to fit and the car to be 100% functional, get a new subframe. if you are willing to make some sacrifices, higher spring rate, losing turn radius, occasional fender rubs, then the system will probably work.

ultimately, i decided to rehoop my wheel and put a 245 tire on the front. if i had it to do over again, i would do something different than the tru turn.

[Shmoov69]

Call Marcus at SC&C and he will tell you everything you need to know and more for what you want.

[David Pozzi]

Originally Posted by marolf101x

GLR0212- You keep showing the same picture of our 69. The fact is that there IS clearance, even in that picture. Maybe it's not a great angle, but I watched over Rod as he did this. . .it is my job. And I assure you there is room to put your hand in there. . .not a ton of room, but room enough.

You must remember, this is an upgrade to allow you to wedge a 275 tire under an OE subframe. There's no doubt it's tight. Of course DSE is going to have more clearance. . .they had the ability to move the frame rails and other parts. We are still dealing with the stock locations.

First, we need to figure out how far out the brakes have moved the wheels (if at all).
Then we need to add -1.0 to -1.5 degrees negative camber (this is the BIGGEST part of making this work!) Those that want to put a 275 under the front are typically building a "track" car and need the negative camber anyway.
Finally you'll need to remove/replace the fender bolt and roll the fender lip.

I understand the 67/68 wheel opening is more round than the 69 and the 69 hangs down over the tire more. However, the 69 fender is pushed out further than the early cars.

From memory, I think a 69 has about 1/2" to 3/4" more room than a 67 or 68 Camaro. BUT a 69 fender lip is lower because it isn't round. Generally, it seems 69 owners have an easier time fitting tires than 67/68 owners do.

[glr0212]

Stove,

Sorry you are having issues. I 100% agree, the system is not streetable with 275 or even 265 tires. I actually sold my entire setup and bought a dse subframe. The 6.25 backspace will work with their subframe. no need to rehoop or buy new tires.

I appreciate the effort ridetech put into this thread, but I will reiterate my warning to others. Don't buy this system and expect to maintain driveability. You will lose turning radius and you will have rubbing. It just doesn't work without major surgery. If nothing else, call a reputable builder who has done this and find out what is actually involved with making this work and what compromises have to be made (turning radius). You will figure out pretty quickly that you are better off buying a speedtech, AME, or DSE subframe. Price will end up being about the same and you will get full functionality.

This setup is a compromise setup at best. I could not recommend it as a realistic way to put 275s on a car.

[bret]

Originally Posted by glr0212

Stove,

Sorry you are having issues. I 100% agree, the system is not streetable with 275 or even 265 tires. I actually sold my entire setup and bought a dse subframe. The 6.25 backspace will work with their subframe. no need to rehoop or buy new tires.

I appreciate the effort ridetech put into this thread, but I will reiterate my warning to others. Don't buy this system and expect to maintain driveability. You will lose turning radius and you will have rubbing. It just doesn't work without major surgery. If nothing else, call a reputable builder who has done this and find out what is actually involved with making this work and what compromises have to be made (turning radius). You will figure out pretty quickly that you are better off buying a speedtech, AME, or DSE subframe. Price will end up being about the same and you will get full functionality.

This setup is a compromise setup at best. I could not recommend it as a realistic way to put 275s on a car.

You are absolutely and completely correct. The True Turn system will not work on an early Camaro with a 6.25 backspace wheel.
Unless you use a 1/2" wheel spacer, or have a brake system that adds 1/2" per side to the track width...or downsize your wheel/tire package to an 18x8.5 w a 245 tire.
A 6.25" bs wheel WILL resolve any remaining outer fender clearance issues though because , as stated, you won't be able to turn the wheels (much).
As a reference (again), every piece of literature we have ever created indicates a 5.75 backspace wheel to be appropriate.
Thankfully 1723 (and counting) Tru Turn customers have selected the correct backspace wheel. They do not make a lot of noise here because they are busy driving their hotrods.

[bret]

Since wheel/tire fitment is a huge deal...and somewhat misunderstood...and requires some real work to get right, I have listed SOME of the items that affect your outcome:

1. Tire size
2. Tire brand (yes, dimensions vary by manufacturer)
3. Tire age (have you already worn some shoulder off of them?)
4. Wheel width
5. Wheel backspace
6. Spindle selection
7. Brake selection
8. Control arm configuration
9. Alignment settings
10. Ride height
11. Height of body bushings
12. Fender alignment and/or previous damage
13. Dimensional tolerance of reproduction fenders
14. Steering box ratio (how far will your box swing the steering linkage
15. Spring rate/swaybar rste/shock settings (determines how much roll your car may have)
16. Ability of customer to tolerate "a little rub here and there"

i could go on.

This is why fitting the absolute largest tire possible on your car is an exponential amount of work...on everyones part.

[glr0212]

Originally Posted by bret

You are absolutely and completely correct. The True Turn system will not work on an early Camaro with a 6.25 backspace wheel.
Unless you use a 1/2" wheel spacer, or have a brake system that adds 1/2" per side to the track width...or downsize your wheel/tire package to an 18x8.5 w a 245 tire.
A 6.25" bs wheel WILL resolve any remaining outer fender clearance issues though because , as stated, you won't be able to turn the wheels (much).
As a reference (again), every piece of literature we have ever created indicates a 5.75 backspace wheel to be appropriate.
Thankfully 1723 (and counting) Tru Turn customers have selected the correct backspace wheel. They do not make a lot of noise here because they are busy driving their hotrods.

Please tell me how I am supposed to push the tire out another 1/2", Brett? Physically, 5.75" back space won't work on my car. It appears Stove is having rubbing and turn radius issues as well. I think people need to realize that there are limitations and compromises with this setup. For what I spent on this car, the last thing i want to hear is rubbing and grinding of tires as I make a 4 point U-turn. Maybe others are willing to live with that.

I know you are probably frustrated with me for starting this thread, but ultimately I was looking for help and trying to give others some real world feed back on how the setup was working for me. You keep saying that every car is different, and I appreciate that but in reality there are only so many variables. one of the most important is track width. You should be able to tell us what track width your 5.75" BS is based on(58" ? 59? 60? ). Once we know that, intelligent people can then add/subtract the hub dimensions and order their wheels accordingly. Another variable that would be helpful is suggested ride height (using baseline 275/XX tire).

Finally, I am not the only one having issues here. If this setup is only for people that race and autocross, fine. Bad on me for expecting it to work on a driver without what I consider to be significant compromises. In the interest of helping others - Maybe some of the other 1721 customers would be willing to come on here and tell us how they drive their car (driver/autocross/road race), how the setup is working for them in the real world, and what if any modifications they had to make to get everything working to their satisfaction.





final final note - I'll admit that I am not perfect. I could have spent more time dialing in alignment or rolled and cut my inner fender, and even though the system didn't work for me and it cost me money and frustration I do appreciate the efforts Ridetech made earlier in the thread to help resolve my issues. Despite the occasional condescending tone towards me, I don't think that Ridetech is a bad company to deal with or makes a bad product. It just didn't work for me and others should consider more than the marketing hype before investing $4,000 into this setup. There will be compromises and its not a plug and play system, and to their credit, Ridetech never said it was.

[SSLance]

I remember not that long ago I was watching a video of Mark Stielow thrashing Hellfire around a road course and you know what I heard...a tire rub a fender on certain bumps... Several times in fact. I guess it happens to the best of us.

I didn't laugh or look down at him when I heard that, I nodded approvingly... Because I knew he was trying to get everything he could out of the setup and was apparently willing to deal with a rub here or there as a compromise.

IMO, if you are the type of owner or driver that doesn't want to deal with that, put a smaller tire on the car. Or...spend a WHOLE bunch more money on an aftermarket sub frame that will let you run that tire without it rubbing...maybe.