stun guns, pepper spray

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by Blown353

It is state specific but you must be issued the permit by the head of law enforcement in your specific county of residence; it it not a global state office that issues the CCW permits, but rather one of the law enforcement chiefs in your county of primary residence. In my case, the past sheriff was not very receptive to issuing the permits. (granted he was also found guilty of a couple of felonies himself, but that's another matter....) I only have two non-law enforcement friends in my county who managed to get their permits; ones owns several on-location ATM machines at private businesses and carries lots of cash on him for work, and the other is a farmer who gets lots of stolen cars dumped & burned on his property late at night and he has had several documented encounters with these thugs while out checking irrigation.

Me being a "regular citizen" just wanting to have the option to carry legally in order to defend myself was not enough of a reason to be granted a permit by our previous corrupt Sheriff (he was indicted and convicted of several felonies.) My place of work is in a somewhat rough area of town and I sometimes have to go down late at night to check on some 24/7 environmental testing equipment when it calls me with an alarm condition; I used that as my justification for requesting a CCW but was denied. Now that we have a new Sheriff who is a genuinely nice guy with a level head I'm going to try again and see if I get a warmer reception.

Just look here and see the issuance percentages for the various counties here in CA. Some are pretty sad, others are not bad at all:
http://californiaccw.org/forums/list...3406BA80516A6D

Glad I live in NV. It took me 7 hours to get my CCW.

[mazspeed]

Originally Posted by Blown353

It is state specific but you must be issued the permit by the head of law enforcement in your specific county of residence; it it not a global state office that issues the CCW permits, but rather one of the law enforcement chiefs in your county of primary residence. In my case, the past sheriff was not very receptive to issuing the permits. (granted he was also found guilty of a couple of felonies himself, but that's another matter....) I only have two non-law enforcement friends in my county who managed to get their permits; ones owns several on-location ATM machines at private businesses and carries lots of cash on him for work, and the other is a farmer who gets lots of stolen cars dumped & burned on his property late at night and he has had several documented encounters with these thugs while out checking irrigation.

Me being a "regular citizen" just wanting to have the option to carry legally in order to defend myself was not enough of a reason to be granted a permit by our previous corrupt Sheriff (he was indicted and convicted of several felonies.) My place of work is in a somewhat rough area of town and I sometimes have to go down late at night to check on some 24/7 environmental testing equipment when it calls me with an alarm condition; I used that as my justification for requesting a CCW but was denied. Now that we have a new Sheriff who is a genuinely nice guy with a level head I'm going to try again and see if I get a warmer reception.

Just look here and see the issuance percentages for the various counties here in CA. Some are pretty sad, others are not bad at all:
http://californiaccw.org/forums/list...3406BA80516A6D

That's weird, Ill have to show him that website. I would only assume that it's state ran or approved then. Don't know. Ill find out. it says my county is 0.01 percent so count me out.

[the camtender]

Texas cc permits are honored by about 15-20 other states. I travel to about 6 other states on a regular bases and never have to change up how I'm going to protect myself and family.I haven't check with Cailf.,don't think it would make a difference to me if I was was planing a visit
**just saying ****

[rwhite692]

Jody I'm real sorry to hear about that. Any chance that it may have been caught on a nearby surveillance camera?

What about putting a sign on the sweeper truck that the sweeper truck itself is equipped with video surveillance (like they have in most taxicabs and police cars?) I wonder how much these systems actually cost nowadays...I imagine they are getting cheaper all the time...

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by the camtender

Texas cc permits are honored by about 15-20 other states. I travel to about 6 other states on a regular bases and never have to change up how I'm going to protect myself and family.I haven't check with Cailf.,don't think it would make a difference to me if I was was planing a visit
**just saying ****

Doesn't Florida work with more than any other? Some thing like 26 states if I remember correctly. I know you can send the paper work to them and get a FL CCW even if you don't live there.

[Bulldog68]

I'd stay away from the stun guns, simply because they only work up close and sometimes that's too late if the suspect gets the drop on your employees. The issues regarding concealed guns pose some legal issues and liability issues for you as an employer, so I'd avoid that route as well, especially in California.

A better option which has been touched on before is the civilian model Taser. It's not necessarily cheap and I don't know how many employees you have working at a time, but if you got one to try and let them have it during the night, it might be a good option for protection. It's designed for application up close, but also has the darts that can be deployed up to a short distance. After deploying it, it's designed to be left behind while the user flees the scene to call 911 and get away from the suspect. When the suspect recovers from being temporarily incapacitated, the Taser is rendered useless and can't be used against anyone else. Even if the suspect grabs it and flees with it, Taser will send you a new one, provided it was used in a lawful manner for protection of your life.

Oh yeah, and don't buy all the media hype about Tasers "killing" people, which would cause liability issues. Granted, we're in California, so liability exists even if you take proper precautions. That said, thousands of officers have been tasered during law enforcement training and nobody has died as a result. I've been tasered and had no ill effects after. It's designed to pulse the muscles and temporarily incapacitate someone, not kill them. The deaths that the media jump on with relation to taser use usually occurred because of secondary factors: suspects' drug use, physical actions during the suspect's flight from officers, fighting with police prior to the Taser use, or pre-existing medical conditions. Unfortunately, the media doesn't address these issues because (a) they're not facts released by law enforcement agencies at the time of the incident, and (b) it's easier to get ratings by attributing a death to the Taser and making controversy. The media makes quotes about the "50,000 volts," but don't address the fact that it's high current (amps) that can kill people, not necessarily the volts.

I'll get off my soapbox now. Good luck with everything...

[tyoneal]

Jody:

I'm wondering if you contacted an Attorney, to go through the acquisition of the signatures if that might increase your chances. Most of them, or their firms know all the Judges and the local Sheriffs in the area. I bet he might be able to get them for you and your employees that are working late, if you approach it from that position, and if your employees can go through a fairly deep background check and come out clean. In addition, since you have the police reports (Hopefully) from the other beatings to use as proof of the Danger to the employees, it might be enough to sway the Sheriff to sign the darn things.

In addition, if the firm was known for being good and tough as hell, it can always be implied that if they didn't sign them after proving a legitimate reason,duly that the Sheriff personally and/or his department could/would incur some of the responsibility should there be a fatality after they were duly warned ahead of time.

Just because they say you can't sue a municipality doesn't mean you can't cause them extreme problems and expense. Plus, if the records of who is already carrying with a license have a similar reasons as yours, now you have prejudice being shown by a politician. (Sheriffs are politicians here for the most part) Politicians hate that kind of problem. (at least here)

It just really blows my mind that laws like that are even constitutional. The bad guys have guns and you can't, "What Dumb ass came up with that?"

It's simply unbelievable.

I am VERY SORRY you and your employees are having to put up with this non-sense. I admire you and respect you for caring about your employees the way you do. I really understand it.

Hang in there and be creative.

With a good lawyer not everyone is created equal under the law.

I do know this for sure, because I have had good luck fighting our city when they got heavy handed with the condemnation laws. You can make it easier for them to do something small, like signing something, just to get you out of their hair, rather than spend all their time having to put up with you.

I wish you success in your efforts of enjoying the benefits, and the safety provided, that the 2nd amendment offers ALL the Citizens of the US.

Best Regards,

Ty

[novanutcase]

I wonder what sort of liability you would have if your employees suddenly became sub-contractors? Of course you would be providing the necessary equipment and they would be providing the sub contracted labor. If they were ever caught with pepper spray or a stun gun then that would be on them. Not that you would want them to be in trouble for carrying protection but just a thought as far as insulating yourself from liability!

John

[Herb68]

I just went through the CCW class here in CA. It is true that the County Sheriff issues (or not) the CCW permits. Once you have one, they are applicable throughout the state (even in San Francisco where they have been banned illigally). Our instructor (a decorated law enforcement trainer) said it will hold up in court if you are caught carrying in S.F. with a valid permit. Some states reciprocate with others, but the cross state relationships are always changing.

All this being said, I wouldn't recommend business endorsed firearms. The criminal will own your business (or their relatives, assuming your aim is good). Here in the Peoples Republic of Califonia, we have even had burglers successfully sue homeowners after falling through a skylight. It makes me sick.

In my latest NRA magazine, I saw an ad for a new pepper spray device made by Kimber that can deliver the spray 22-feet. It looks very much like a flare gun (hunter orange). If someone is stupid enough to rough up workers at night for entertainment, they may turn tail at the sight of what they think is a flare gun. If not, let 'em have it right in the face. Even if they have a hand gun, their aim won't be too good if they can't see!

With some luck, maybe the criminal will fall backward on a sprinkler, become permenantly paralyzed, and that will be the end of it. Hey, I can dream, can't I?

[andrewmp6]

It is nice to see a company care about there workers safety,Yes pepper spray would be ok make sure its the kind that will spray pretty far not the cheapo key chain types.