Save GM

[trapin]

I'm at the point now where I'm so pissed off at all the haters that I'm almost hoping my company goes under as well as Ford and Chrysler. Than I can sit back and watch all the people who thought they wouldn't be effected run around with their hair on fire.

It's amazing the twisted logic of some people.

"Let them go down...they deserve it...their cars are junk....teach them a lesson"

Yeah....that's a terrific idea. Let the thousands of retirees who did nothing wrong and busted their asses for 30-40 years lose 75% of their pensions because some idiot in rural Nebraska with no connection to the auto industry has a point to prove.

Yeah....that's makes a lot of sense.

Anyone up for a little collateral damage?

[TonyG]

Originally Posted by tellyv

Ok heres my 2 cents, I own a bodyshop I really dont sell parts or have an inventory of stuff besides paint and materials but lets look at it this way, say I sold tires and I have a huge inventory that I already paid for now my buisness is about to fail what do you do? sit on my pile of tires and keep them at retail price or do I cut my loss and sell them even if its less than I paid for them its not smart but at least I can pay my bills and stay open for awhile longer. Now I know gm is having some good sales but give me a break if your about to go out of buisness sell some of this stuff and sell it cheap, your not going to be selling these gas guzzlers anyway so price them to move even if you loose some money at least you'll keep your doors open. Price them cheap and sell them with no warranty so they wont loose out even more in the end and if you want a warranty you'll have to pay for it.

This is the best advice given in the simplest analogy.. But do you think they will do that. nope. and why? GREED. The same reason they are in the situation they are in. The entire country is going to **** for this same reason.

[jeff hanson]

Originally Posted by trapin

I'm at the point now where I'm so pissed off at all the haters that I'm almost hoping my company goes under as well as Ford and Chrysler. Than I can sit back and watch all the people who thought they wouldn't be effected run around with their hair on fire.

It's amazing the twisted logic of some people.

"Let them go down...they deserve it...their cars are junk....teach them a lesson"

Yeah....that's a terrific idea. Let the thousands of retirees who did nothing wrong and busted their asses for 30-40 years lose 75% of their pensions because some idiot in rural Nebraska with no connection to the auto industry has a point to prove.

Yeah....that's makes a lot of sense.

Anyone up for a little collateral damage?

Tony, I couldn't have said it better myself. Some people have to get a frickin clue!

[BRIAN]

So we are supposed to keep buying cars that we know in one way or another are inferior to support a Co with poor management non cost effective labor, and burdened with paying off the old time pensions??? They have to prove a change before they get bailed out. Nobody is going to pump money into a Co. like that.

There is no hate on my end. I wish they had gotten it together a long time ago. Even the Vette has a rebate. They should have had that link on their site years ago to help push sales. It is like any other Co just on a grand scale. They are poorly run and with a product that people do not want. There is no need for the big 3 anymore as most car buyers see it in the US. Funny thing is I believe their projected sales outside the USA were growing quickly.

If GM goes they will probably all go as how would the supporting vendors stay afloat. I agree the effects will be devastating. The Hot Rod Industry will also be destroyed as they use a lot of the same suppliers. LS engine parts?

You would think people would be running to GM's site and helping them out. Just a different time as in the 50's there was that USA spirit. I am convinced that people really do not care at all. I will send a letter as they request and think anyone with an interest in the US economy or cars in general should also.

[andrewmp6]

I say let them file chapter 11 which removes all union contracts and let them reopen none union they won't be losing money anymore.Gm pays every auto worker 85 a hour which is there pay and all the benefits they get.When you buy a new gm the biggest chunk of the money goes for workers benefits the raw parts to make it are 2nd.The union contract will not let them hire temp workers so they get stuck paying people not to work.

[XcYZ]

The automotive manufacturing industry is going to follow the textile and steel industry. GM will live, but after they collapse, they will restructure and leave the US. But I'm sure they will leave a couple of assembly plants in the US so they can still say they are made in the USA, just like Toyota and Honda claim. It appears that's what a lot of people want.

[trapin]

Originally Posted by BRIAN

So we are supposed to keep buying cars that we know in one way or another are inferior....

Originally Posted by BRIAN

They are poorly run and with a product that people do not want.

My God listen to yourself Brian....you've been hanging around the watercooler for far too long. The only reason someone wouldn't want our vehicles for fear of owning an inferior product is because of all the biased rhetoric out there that is fueled by misguided perceptions.

Our cars are inferior? PROVE IT.

I want to see the proof. GO GET ME THE PROOF.

Because I can get the latest JD Power numbers and they tell a different story than the one you're telling. You might say you're not a hater but you sure sound like one. I just hope you can keep your job for your family's sake if we go under because the trickle-down effect is going to brush right by your nose my friend. If you think otherwise...you haven't been paying attention.

[tellyv]

Maybe if things go bad for my company I can call up the gov. and get a bailout also? Like that would happen, so why do I have to pay for their mistakes its bs. I'm sick of being a good person who pays for the stuff I buy and didnt go borrow for every stupid ass toy or bought or built a home that I didnt need. This is a long time comming just like our whole economy big buisness waisting money the ceo's getting rich let them spend their own damn money to bail themselves out. If gm and the big 3 go down and we have to pay what do we get out of it? cheaper cars or a break on parts, I highly doubt it, how much money did they spend at sema? maybe they should look at how they spend money they dont have, that wont happen because they dont have to take responsibility for the way they spend their money cause they know we'll bail them out. I hope they dont go under for the employees and our economy's sake but I know as a nation we shouldnt have to take money out of our pockets to keep them running.

[XcYZ]

Originally Posted by trapin

Because I can get the latest JD Power numbers and they tell a different story than the one you're telling.

From Freep:

Myth No. 2
They build unreliable junk.

Reality

The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Power Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.

J.D. Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.


Another interesting number; General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year.






I have no idea what the answer is but thought it should be noted that today's vehicles, built in this country, are as good as anyone's.

What I don't understand is the $700bn handout to Wall Street is ok, but helping the Big 3 with what comes to 3.5% of the amount of what Wall Street is recieving is a bad thing. Shouldn't we be demanding the same thing, if not more, of Wall Street? Fire the administrations, demand transparency, etc, etc.

Again, I have no idea how it's going to be fixed, all of this sucks.

[sniper]

Originally Posted by trapin

I'm at the point now where I'm so pissed off at all the haters that I'm almost hoping my company goes under as well as Ford and Chrysler. Than I can sit back and watch all the people who thought they wouldn't be effected run around with their hair on fire.

It's amazing the twisted logic of some people.

"Let them go down...they deserve it...their cars are junk....teach them a lesson"

Yeah....that's a terrific idea. Let the thousands of retirees who did nothing wrong and busted their asses for 30-40 years lose 75% of their pensions because some idiot in rural Nebraska with no connection to the auto industry has a point to prove.

Yeah....that's makes a lot of sense.

Anyone up for a little collateral damage?

Your too close to this situtation to have an objective view.
I find it ironic that you are up in arms about people not wanting to bail your company out, but where is your anger at your company for not building products that people WANT!
Those retireees you speak of are a huge part of the problem. They are drawing huge pensions and are providing nothing in return, hence the word pension. Can you agree that, that business model is a failed one?
Can you agree that NO company can survive by paying retired employees for the rest of their lives and still be a profitable business?
If GM went under those retirees wouldn't lose 75% of their pensions, that is just a false. Would those accounts not get turned over to the Pension benefit guarentee corporation?
Why would GM going into bankruptcy harm it? It's supposed to be an instrument of accoutnablitity for a company to rebound.
Why as well is GM crying if they don't get the bail out then they will go out of business? That's a load of ****. Is there nothing they can cut or reduce production to stay in business and again become profitable.

We live in a country that thrives on creative destruction. Where one business fails another stands up behind it.

Bottom line is that a business is not in the business of creating jobs. A business through it's success's creates jobs. A business that builds, creates, or services products that people want or need hire people as a byproduct of success.

If we want the government to bail out companies so that people never lose jobs, why just have the fed pay every citizen $50k a year and they can work however they want?

How many bankruptcies did the airlines go through?
How many thousands of jobs were lost in the textile industry? Where was their bailout?
Seems like you and other like you think the Big 3 is too important to fail or downsize.

PS. this is not a personal attack at anyone but please understand that there are millions of people that are not in the industry that have an outsiders view.